AAAAGH Reform. Are people ignoring the racist?

[Peasnbeans]

And that he's no economist skills yet promising the impossible. And a racist. And mysoginist.

If Mumsnet is full of women, how is no-one talking about Reform and limiting women's rights?
I know I'll get flamed for this, but it is a boiling frog situation! Jump out!
And I didn't choose the AIBU board but I looked down all the Current Threads and this didn't feature.

It literally describes how people being accused of racism may actually be referring to a fast shift in demographics within the UK.

Any mention of colour does not equal racism. Is no one allowed to mention a government statistic?

Just like the other thread running about watermelons, some people are too immature to engage in a debate and just shout racism to everyone.

A fast shift in racial demographics, yes.

And an assumption that is a bad thing.

Start with this. It's interesting and nuanced. And there are plenty of links to supporting studies:

Full article: In the wake of Brexit: negotiating diversity and majority-minority relations in the North of England https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1369183X.2023.2182555

Yeah cos that will work 🤣

This is no longer legal under the Welfare of Animals at the Time of Killing Regulations 2015.

Yup and they move their business operations out of UK.

https://www.cityam.com/millionaires-leave-britain-in-record-numbers-since-labour-took-power/

Thats got nothing to do with affordability

I think we will have to agree to disagree, @MasterBeth, because if you don't instinctively see the problem with what I described then we just have fundamentally different ideas about cultural values.

FYI I grew up in several countries around the world and moved around as a child (classic "third culture kid" upbringing) and the friends I'm most envious of are the ones who really love their own cultures, who are embedded in them, and are able to celebrate and share what's special about them with others. "Diversity" is not England's culture. It's complete cultural erasure and disrespectful to tens of millions of people to continue to insist that that's the only value they're allowed to celebrate.

Well if Reform get rid of DEI of which women as a whole are big recipients of this, then we don’t need to have equality in the workplace, in pay, or encourage women in roles like Engineering and other traditional male jobs. Let’s look at the USA, JD Vance has already gone on record to say now there’s no DEI that women shouldn’t work or be educated in traditional male industries, that they should essentially be at home making babies. There has also been less money available for women’s sport in the US after this as well as its no longer a priority. Lots of women in the USA thought DEI didn’t mean them but it did and it will do here. Not to mention no NHS.

Another racist myth.

What areas of British culture are we not allowed to celebrate? My friend was up at dawn on May Day in the shadow of Nottingham Castle to commemorate the feast of Beltane with a crowd of Morris dancers. I didn't see you there.

It may be illegal but it still happens.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg2ed48x7vowww.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg2ed48x7vo

Islamics are legally allowed to practice non-stun slaughter for religious purposes.

Limiting immigration isn’t racist, but Nigel Farage is.

Your link doesn't work.

Many people from many cultures do illegal things.

And "Islamics" is not a polite substitute term for Muslims.

@MasterBeth
Not sure of the exact number but it’s definitely in the thousands and that’s just the ones I know of. I’ve been in some and they are luxurious in comparison with the mould infested flats the U.K. native families waiting to be housed are living in! You are very naive to think otherwise! I suggest you do some research!

It was about a farmer who had a sheep stolen and butchered in Lincolnshire.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyqv7lrdezo

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg2ed48x7vo

Many people from many cultures do illegal things.

Well that's funny as I don't remember seeing any reports of Christians stealing Communion wine out of the vestry

And "Islamics" is not a polite substitute term for Muslims.

Really?

"Islamics" generally refers to the academic study of Islam, encompassing its history, culture, theology, and practices. It can also refer to a broader field of study that examines Islamic societies, cultures, and civilizations, potentially including political, social, and economic aspects.

@OneAmberFinchSo it was ok for you to move around as a child and be an immigrant in other countries, but it’s not ok for people from other counties to be in the UK?

Why are you not able to share the details? Show me.

@MasterBeth
I’m not doing your research for you! Look it up yourself! 😂 You can choose to believe what you want but the fact is that these properties are there. Plus as I said I only know about them because I work in the area. It would be slightly stupid and possibly outing for me to post a bloody link! 🙄😂 I have no idea if these developments are replicated in other areas or not.

Simplistic.

Was it okay for my white British ancestors to go a-colonising? Was it okay for my parents to move me around as a child? Was it okay for me to move to different countries as an adult? Was it better or worse when I eventually picked England (a country I at least have genetic/ethnic ties to)?

Who knows but the experiences I gained during my life gave me the perspective I have on culture and integration, which is informed heavily by seeing first-hand how culture is seen on the ground in other countries.

My conclusion is that cultural assimilation is really freaking hard and is something that needs generations/centuries to achieve, if possible at all.

People are naive if they don't appreciate the immense level of investment it takes to integrate even people from similar cultures - how long ago was the Ulster Plantation again? - let alone ones where, say, adult women can't even read or write in their own language let alone in English. Even with the absolute best of intentions and small numbers it's really resource-intensive. At scale, it's impossible.

How would it be “outing”? Surely thousands of people must live there. I too would very much like to know where these properties are - particularly since there doesn’t appear to be any online reference.

Calm down, these are Reform councillors, not US senators.

That instinct is still there. It's called the similar attraction effect.

But the OP did not call anyone stupid. And it was Farage that she called racist, not everyone who voted for him

This idea that one should never attack the right wing because that's calling voters 'stupid' and 'looking down on them' and will justify them in voting for the right, is something that the right have put forward to intimidate and silence their opponents.

FWIW, I don't look down on the right wing; I'm terrified of them and their views.

It's true that just saying what's wrong with your opponents is not generally enough to win and may even put people off voting altogether. (Though Trump and his colleagues did pretty well by negative campaigning. It's interesting that the right are very ready to point out the Democrats' failure of calling opponents 'deplorables' but not their own success of calling them 'Crooked Hillary' and 'Sleepy Joe' and 'enemies within' and 'childless cat ladies'., etc., etc,)

What is needed is more positive policies. Labour are losing support through their continued Tory-lite - and not always even all that lite- austerity policies. And I speak as someone who opposed Corbyn and preferred Starmer's caution and moderation, but it's going too far.

There's no point in trying to win the support of ideological hard-right-wingers. The left and centr need policies that will attract current non-voters, and those who are tempted to vote Reform just to 'get a change'.

Perhaps we need to look outside Europe and the USA to the recent successes, rather against the odds, of left-of-centre parties in Canada and Australia. What lessons might their successful campaigns teach Labour and other non-right-wing parties here?

"I'm not racist! I voted Reform because the main parties won't listen!"

"Go on then, we are listening."

"Everything is the fault of immigrants!"

"No it isn't."

"See, I told you you wouldn't listen! if you'd listened you'd have said "Yes it is!" I'm voting Reform because they listen!"

Well some of them were nice enough to have wedding bookings that were cancelled to accommodate immigrants and the footage I’ve seen from independent reporters looked like they were perfectly nice - one was a converted stately home.

Unless your idea of a nice hotel is Claridges?