AAAAGH Reform. Are people ignoring the racist?

[Peasnbeans]

And that he's no economist skills yet promising the impossible. And a racist. And mysoginist.

If Mumsnet is full of women, how is no-one talking about Reform and limiting women's rights?
I know I'll get flamed for this, but it is a boiling frog situation! Jump out!
And I didn't choose the AIBU board but I looked down all the Current Threads and this didn't feature.

Open borders is open borders though, whether it feels like uncontrolled migration via the small boats which are the highly visible element or a change in government rules.

I’m interested that you appear to criticise me for mentioning the rapes (and murders) that would not have happened had these men not been in the country. Do you think it is ok for our judicial system to effectively incentivise rape by making it a factor that HELPS with an application to stay rather than gets them deported pronto?

How many totally preventable rapes and murders should we tolerate for your cause? Can you see that calling people racist for highlighting known issues with apparently uncontrolled migration (at best extremely lax rules for some) is part of the reason why Reform won?

Ok so what policies in their manifesto do you support and how do you think they'll achieve them? I don't think everyone who supports reform are racist but I also don't think much critical thinking has been applied and people don't seem to know or cost how reform are going to achieve any of what they promise. I have asked this question a few times on different threads about reform and not one supporter has responded. Find that weird. Are you supporting realistic policies or sound bites?

Farage wants to roll back abortion limits from 24 weeks

Being realistic here, only two large parties have been found to be racist by the Equality and Human Rights Commission. The British National Party and the Labour Party.

I think it's a touching way to kick off the V.E. day celebrations..

Recognising the bravery and sacrifices made by Britain and its allies to defeat a far right ideology...by voting for a far right party .

It is most depressing; but it does need to be a wake-up call for Labour, NOT to imitate Farage (if people are just given the choice between Reform and Reform-lite they'll likely go with the real thing) but to stop imitating the Tories at every turn. If people wanted cuts and austerity, they'd have voted Tory. If Labour offers only more of the same, people are likely either not to vote at all or to vote for anyone who seems to offer an alternative.

Interesting

I think the accusations might be the last try by some mners to support open borders.

It’s not easy to change, but it may well happen at next GE.

It’s not a particularly dangerous crossing - people swim it for sport.

They get support from the RNLI who apparently now handout out thousands of lifejackers/blankets etc every week.

It’s also easy to forget that they are coming from a safe country. They have most likely travelled across several other safe countries for our hotel, benefits and in many cases free private healthcare, along with additional government funding for free lawyers to assist them with their legal argument to stay. These lawyers have successfully argued for the rights of convicted rapists to stay because their home country frowns on rapists. Why don’t we frown on rapists?

Yes. That’s the trouble with the knee jerk reaction some have to anyone wanting proper immigration controls - I have now been called racist several times but I know I’m not so I don’t care any more, it’s just strange people trying to silence me.

Meanwhile they are ignoring the actual racists and letting them carry on unimpeded.

There are not open borders, how ever many times you say there are. There are rules in place. It is disingenuous to pretend otherwise and plays into the hands of racists when you do.

It does the same when you make this an issue about criminality, especially violent criminality.

Do you believe we should let tourists into our country? What happens if a tourist commits a criminal act? Do we therefore control tourism? Do you believe we should let overseas business people into our country? What happens if a businessman commits a rape? Do we therefore restrict business travel?

Do you believe we should let British men roam the streets? British men are responsible for most of the criminal acts in Britain

Your position only makes sense if you believe immigrants are more likely to be rapists.

@MasterBethI knew you’d respond to open borders. If the PM uses it then it’s not unusual for it to be general conversation.

Any take on population question?

It’s not a particularly dangerous crossing - people swim it for sport.

Oops, you've blown your cover. All this time, you've been trying to appear reasonable, but now you've said something so undeniably stupid and trollsome that no-one will be fooled.

Brexit was a vote against immigration, and the Tories delivered more immigration.
If Labour don’t get on this, Reform will win the next election or the one after.

Re crimes I think we should vet for those who could stay long term before they arrive. You can do this with visas, some countries do this.

I'm not a political economist. I don't know the precise number of people Britain can support. But there's no reason our nation couldn't increase it's population density to that of successful economies like the Netherlands or South Korea.

Stop the goats !

Why would we want to?

And if they do what would you like them to implement to control immigration?

That's funny. Every Brexit supporter at the time said it wasn't about immigration, it was all about the principle of self-government and national sovereignty.

Well, we have our national sovereignty thanks to Brexit, the "Get Brexit Done" lot introduced our current immigration policy and all the same people that got suckered in voting for those choices are now telling us they know best voting Reform because they made such great choices before... (But we're not allowed to call them stupid )

Why would we not? To grow a productive and successful economy, maybe?

To be fair I'm not sure if Reform themselves know the answer to this question.

Eh?? Are you telling me that people haven’t swum across the channel? According to Google there have been 4133 channel swims. I’m not suggesting that it’s easy but it’s not as dangerous as people keep claiming.

What ‘cover’ do you think I’ve blown? At least you agree that my previous points on how it feels to many that the rules are so lax it amounts to effective open borders.

Two reasons I can think of

I don’t need things to be more crowded and I’d like to preserve the spaces we have.

And, when you reach South Korea levels you’ll just have bigger problems when you want to halt the population increase. You’re just pushing a bigger issue to the next generation to deal with.

Foreign nationals are more likely to arrested for sex offences than British nationals. Three times more likely.

Surely in order to do that we need to ensure we have people with the correct skills and integrative ethos coming in rather than any random person who may or may not have a violent past?

And no, it’s not racist to say that we want to prevent violent criminals from entering our country.