To think that not speaking to your own son is not a good look for the King ?

[Marmaladelover]

Don’t get me wrong I think Harry has been a bit of an entitled burk but even so I was shocked that there has not been a reconciliation between Harry and Megan and the King and Queen at least to be civil to each other .
Refusing to even speak just seems like sulking to me !
That said I don’t think Harry telling the world and washing yet more dirty laundry in public is going to help matters .

Maybe some folk will think this comment belongs in the Royal Family thread rather than AIBU but it’s more about mumsnet standards ( sulking is not good ) and whether they should apply to those in high office .

Even JFK and Krushev had a hotline after the Cuban Crisis !

Where did I say he would had had the same relationship with Kates family?

You are being obtuse.
All the things you mention are relevant but Harry's behaviour might be the last straw.

I totally agree with you. Harry is delusional. He should have sat tight and he could have had what Zara etc has for his own kids. The Crown and the survival of the Windsors will always be paramount.

Why is it obtuse? Harry, if anything, by any normal optic (ie not being a member of the Royal Family) is nothing but a family moan about his own family. If anything should be the 'last straw' for the Monarchy, its all the other stuff, not the 5th in line to the Throne moaning about his family. If anything the attention being on him is drawing attention away from the rest of them, which is hugely beneficial to them. Without the press whipping up the 'goodies and baddies' narrative that makes them so much money, they will turn on one of the rest of them, and there aren't many of them left.

They're Royal. They are not, never have been, never will be, an 'ordinary family'. Kings gave been fighting with their sons ever since someone first grabbed the crown. Historically, many princes feel hard done by and believe their unique talents unrewarded. Kings worry about being usurped by their ungrateful son/s who are never satisfied and always want more than they are given. In short, most of the current lot know what side their bread is buttered and are quiescent. If only Harry had bothered to read a book during his expensive education, instead of hanging about the stables, he might have a better grasp of how things were going to work out for him outside the Golden Circle. He still doesn't get it.

I do think that H&M were treated unfairly and in a disgusting way by both the RF and Royal establishment as a whole.
What some would call whining and blabbing to the press, I call standing up for yourself and speaking your truths with your chest without hiding behind sources to get your version out( and yes King Charles did slag off his parents in a book, did risk bringing down the monarchy with the Diana debacle, and was found accepting a bag full of cash among other scandals and I could continue for the whole day....).

It all boils down to people being hypocrites and deciding to defend this family( who frankly operates more like a state- funded mafia than as a Royal Family) at all costs while scapegoating Henry.

I used to blame the press for all of this, but at the end of the day no matter what the biased press try to portray, it is very clear that this is a very toxic institution.

All this is coming from a person who used to be pretty favourable to the monarchy - the weddings, the tiaras, the Royal babies, even the scandals( I used to find all of this entertaining). However, what I have been seeing in the last 5-6 years has really opened my eyes to how rotten this institution is from the core.

I believe this sentiment is more widespread than what it seems, and will ultimately translate in the Royals gradually losing respect and relevancy and the Monarchy dying a slow death.

Even if we accept @LipglossAlly 's argument that they were treated unfairly, the truth is that H&M are desperate to be Royal and to be accepted within the fold. They wanted to 'collaborate with the Queen' when they left, represent the Commonwealth, and now he wants a reconciliation and his IPP status. The reality is that they are throwing a hissy fit because they can't have royalty and privilege on THEIR terms. So if the institution is rotten from the core, then Harry and Meghan actually want access to that very core, and to benefit from it.
After all, Meghan takes every opportunity to remind us she's a Duchess, and a Sussex, a place I'd suspect she would struggle to identify on a map.

I say this as someone who is as 'woke' as they come, and is not a Royalist, and writes about decolonisation for a living, I agree that the monarchy is an outdated institution, but Harry and Meghan are absolutely and fully complicit with its structures and more over, they want to be more enmeshed within it, rather than less.

Finally, as evidence, let me present what Harry had to say about the awful Ngozi Fulani incident that even Buckingham Palace thought was an act of racism. He defended Susan Hussey, and thought it was the media making a big deal out of nothing: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/royals/harry-meghan-back-royal-aide-28904708
So Ngozi Fulani who had been a vocal supporter of Harry and Meghan, and had taken heat for it, was being told by Harry that it was 'just unconscious bias', and the media making a big deal out of nothing.

And THIS is the problem Harry and Meghan have, a lack of credibility. First they wanted to be half in and half out. Then narrative 2 was that they were on a freedom flight, escaping a racist and toxic nation and its press to grow chickens in California, and now we are back to narrative 1 where he never wanted to leave at all, but was forced to do so because of security...

I don't disagree that the monarchy could do with some reform. But Harry and Meghan don't want to reform the monarchy, they want to be in it wholeheartedly, just on their terms, and enjoy every perk that comes with it.

In what way were H and M treated unfairly @LipglossAlly ?
If they were treated unfairly why did they want to remain part of The Firm ?
Why is H desperate to reconcile?
Why does M cling on to her title of the RF experience was so awful ?

Harry seems very willing to put any conversation or interaction into the public for pay. And in that Oprah interview he clearly lied about a lot of it. Nothing has happened to make anyone think they now regret that approach, quite the opposite, they now seem to be all the more desperate for money.

As long as Charles and the rest continue to interact with H and M, H and M can make any claim they like and there is nothing to be done because the RF won't usually comment. Even if they just talk about the weather or kids Harry can claim someone said something racist or whatever.

The only way to make sure Harry can't make any claim, is to not speak to him at all. and he's still trying to use that against them.

He said he'd not had a risk management assessment since the first decision in 2020 when standard practice is that they happen yearly.

I very much doubt that that is standard practice for people living abroad. It makes much more sense to do an assessment each time he is officially invited over here or when he gives due notice, as he has been asked to do. It's fairly ridiculous to expect people to do a full risk assessment for the whole family every year when we have no idea whether they will turn up in the UK or not.

I agree. Charles is the father, he should fix it.

How exactly would you suggest Charles fixes it, @21ZIGGY? The only thing that would placate Harry would be an abject apology by Charles and William and probably a few other members of the RF, with an acknowledgement that Harry has never done anything wrong, is a living saint and basically can have anything he wants, including full security. And even Charles were to arrange all that, he has no means of knowing that Harry won't go running to the Press the next day to complain that his tone of voice was wrong or something.

I find the contrast between Harry’s interviews where he says what he feels with his full chest and the ‘palace sources’ creeping around leaking to the press, interesting.
Whether you think Harry is right or wrong, the result is the Windsors are associated with secrecy and cruelty . Their ignoring of requests for some transparency ( I’m thinking of their financial dealings / Duchy scandal etc) doesn’t help .

Charles wrote a book about how awful Elizabeth and Philip were . The queen had the sense ( or her advisors did ) not to cut Charles off . Though of course he was the heir and in their medieval system the heir must be protected at all costs .
The spare can be pilloried.
Charlotte or more likely Louis up next for the same treatment .

The thing is you have to take the consequences that come with these actions so Harry now has to suck these up. Obviously it is something that people have differing opinions on but for most of the people I know Harry is a joke and causes 🙄 with his name. For younger generations they will have no idea who he even is and as the years pass he really is irrelevant in the overall RF.

I'm reading the dimbleby biography of Charles which is pretty old so it doesn't come past the mid nineties but I was struck by how the older royals, and younger ones to some degree are absolutely moulded by the establishment. Charles was more sensitive and loving by this account than the late Queen, Harry is more sensitive by his account than his brother (who it does sound like spent their childhood being quite horrible to Harry). However the establishment is incredibly powerful and the members of royal family simply must be able to overwrite any feelings they have and are trained out of them as far as possible. So the King I imagine is trying to protect the monarchy before giving out hugs and statements. Remember how the late Queen had to be winkled out of Scotland to acknowledge the death of Diana, and Tony Blair had to practically force her to include the line about being a grandmother. The old school royal establishment is incredibly powerful.

I think you underestimate the great British public and their views. No one expects the RF to be immune from divorces, illness or other problems like it maybe was back in the 1960s. No one expects them to be perfect. Issues such as mental health, depression in young men , domestic violence etc are all issues addressed by various members of the RF.
I don't think people hearing that " papa doesn't speak to me " necessarily believes it because Harry is a proven liar. I think they probably are more likely to think " if that is the case who can blame him. He's been/ is ill and the last thing he needs is a whingey twat like that" . I think you anti monarchists need to get up to speed with your arguments as opposed to floundering on the old tropes.

But what do you expect Charles to do? Is he supposed to say publicly that he doesn't care that Harry has publicly slagged off virtually all his closest relatives and in-laws and has told obvious lies, and that he's happy for Harry to carry on doing that? Harry is certainly not the only person whose parents have been divorced or whose mother has died in distressing circumstances. Indeed, William has been through all of that and a whole lot more, given that he was the one Diana used to cry at, and his own wife has been seriously ill so he was facing the prospect of the same thing happening to his children.

It's increasingly difficult to resist the notion that Harry is now positively enjoying trading off his background, he has certainly been very blatantly trying to monetise his mother.

Well said.

Or maybe he knew her better than you do?

They can't "put" either child anywhere. For all you know, Louis will turn out to be the hard worker rather than Charlotte, or they both will be hard workers, or (more likely) they'll both just choose to stay out of the limelight and live their own lives apart from carrying out the occasional royal duty.

Poor Harry was treated so badly by his brother? What's your source for this?

How could Charles protect his family against Diana failing to put a seatbelt on and getting into a car driven by a drunk man?

How? Princess Margaret was living in a very different era when unfortunately it was seen as unacceptable for her to marry a divorced man. She then went through a marriage with a bisexual man where the marriage was publicly collapsing from an early stage. In what way are you saying Harry compares more closely to her than to Ann or Edward?

Having said that I do understand how Charles would be very cautious about talking to Harry with this constant talking to the media but if they did speak and Charles apologised and said nice things then what's to fear.

What's to fear is that, whatever Charles says, it will be twisted beyond recognition and churned out at the next Netflix interview as yet another source of grievance.

Do you really not think Harry has anything to apologise for? He was, after all, caught out in several outright and very offensive lies about his family.

@foreverblowingbubbless

Keep blowing those wishful thinking bubbles

The Windsors only survive due to their insistence on secrecy . All their wills are secret - why ? Because if they had to follow the law like the rest of us , we’d have factual information about their immense wealth and affairs etc
There’d be even fewer Union Jack hats in the Mall if the facade came down

Charles and William look cruel and cold - the court case showed when security was pulled - We know the royals have representatives on RAVEC what we don’t know is how much weight they are given - but we can take a bloody good guess .

People understand that families can have conflict - they don’t understand putting family members in harm’s way as punishment for speaking publicly about their own lives .

And no, before someone starts, having to apply 28 days in advance and have each application considered individually means Harry does NOT have security.
Harry is only given full security if invited by the Windsors. Let’s see how that goes.

It's perfectly clear that no-one in the government or the royal family is going to risk Harry and his family being attacked, not least because they don't want them to become martyrs. If they give notice, I'm quite sure that there will be a full risk assessment and, if there is known to be a particular risk at the relevant time, security will be stepped up. Think about, for instance, Salman Rushdie - he has no particular status in this country, but when he comes here he gets full security because no-one wants the UK to be the country which fails to keep him safe.