Reform winning big

[Keirawr]

Reform had a good night, winning county councils, probably will win a mayoral seat and won the parliamentary by election also.

You don’t have to be a Reform voter to acknowledge that they are taking votes off Labour. Or that they are being electorally effective.

No doubt the ‘basket of deplorables’ crowd will be along in a min with their usual quips calling reform voters names, having learned absolutely 0 from Brexit. Insult the voters at your peril.

These same people also totally miss the point that winning is winning. Feeling all moral and superior about ‘oh well, what will they actually do’ changes nothing.

Perhaps those who label everyone that wants immigration limiting as ‘racist’ Will think again. But likely not.

Gosh, how virtuous you sound. But I think really you are voting for what you think will be best overall for you and yours. So you are voting for number 1 and in your own best interests.

Others will look at exactly the same things as you and come to a completely different conclusion and vote accordingly - again putting themselves first and voting for number 1

Was Brexit not supposed to solve all our problems? That's what you get listening to someone like Farage!

In my opinion, Reform policies appeal to the same people who would vote for Trump. These are the working class, unemployed, scared of losing their job, disenfranchised tabloid readers who voted for Brexit. This is happening because they feel scared and abandoned by the major parties and don’t understand the policies of parties such as The Greens.

Politicians should be there for all constituents, not just their party following conies and then this would be les likely to happen.

It's not about voting against your own interests it's about not putting them front and centre and recognising that a well functioning equal society benefits us all.

The bigger picture isn’t even working for Labour by that criteria.

"for the good of the country". Well yes, I'm sure most people think the way they vote is for the good of the country. Doesn't mean they're right though does it?

Ah you always say that kind of thing. You are incapable of seeing any good that Labour might be doing because, well Labour. Amongst the bad decisions Labour have made there are some good things happening. I dare you to investigate.

Does it? Has there ever been a well functioning equal society anywhere in the world let alone the UK?

You're contradicting yourself. You said don't most people vote for their own good. The two are not interchangeable.

Of course and you always say how well they’re doing.

It looks like the swing shows other feel similarly.

This. For example, I couldn't vote for a party that would completely remove support for vulnerable people e.g. disabled children, just because they pledged to reduce my taxes.

Also, if you're not putting your own interests front and centre (when deciding who to vote for) you are voting against your own interests!

No but there are some that are more equal than others and I will support governments that are trying to bridge the gap not increase it

People are really fed up, peope are struggling, life is grim for many in this country. 14 years of the Tories with the attendant running down of public services and the corruption of their later years rather than anything that Labour could offer saw the latter win the last election by default. Things have not magically improved in the past 10 months, it would be miraculous of they did and Labour have made some grave misteps. Farage, ever the one to see an opportunity has leapt into the breach and here we are. I would never in a million years vote for them, just seeing the photos of "man of the people" Nigel with Andrew Tate and Conner McGregor and his toadying up to Trump shows me who this man is. Then factor in his nine jobs, the way he has turned his back on his constituency of Clacton where he has yet to hold a surgery and it is blindigly obvious that the man is an opportunistic grifter rather like his erstwhile buddy Trump. He also does not have the intellect, the temperament or the work ethic to be in government. If you have voted Reform bear in mind this man wants to introduce USA style health insurance and end SEND provision in schools. What a "man of the people" he is...

No I'm not. I'm recognising that (in my current position) any tweaks economically aren't likely to impact me massively either way but can have a huge impact on more vulnerable citizens. For example if a party promises a tax reduction for the middle income earners but to fund it means supports or services will be reduced for a more vulnerable group I would not view the small financial gain for me worth the pain for someone else.

I cannot speak for all Reform voters obviously but i do know plenty of well working, young/old or retired M/C people who are voting Reform.

I don't think Labour have realised the feeling in the country, the change they promised is to most people, non existent.

Almost a year in & they've done SFA on Dentistry, on Energy costs, on potholed roads... they totally messed up with WFA and expenses in the early days and thats set the tone.... unless they pull their finger out, this tone will carry-on into the next GE and Farage will be the next PM in 2029.

The Tory supporting press & supporters shouldn't cheer, because they will cease to exist in a few years time.

I think you're not understanding rather than me contradicting myself. I didn't suggest the two points were interchangeable, rather that when people vote for their preferred politician/party by extension they think that politician/party will be best for the country.

He's probably a reform voter 😂

Gosh, you really are virtuous. Well done you.

Yeah, point taken. Then again, maybe a Reform win would bring about the end of democracy as we know it 🤪

If there's never been a well functioning equal society how can you know that the society you strive for will be a better society? Anyway, it will never happen as human nature is against it.

I'm not trying to sound virtuous I'm explaining how I vote.

But I think really you are voting for what you think will be best overall for you and yours. So you are voting for number 1 and in your own best interests.
No, not me or mine, society but of course what I think is best for society may not be shared with someone eise I'm not that bloody arrogant. This started because you could not believe people did not vote like you do, we have explained how we vote and for some reason you are arguing with how we vote and suggesting we are wrong in our claim.

What they don't seem to understand is that the economy will shrink. Brexit failed the economy and now they want to twist the knife in even more.

From what I know of the manifesto - these are key points that I have a real issue with and why:

Take illegal migrants back to France and process asylum seekers offshore - completely politically unworkable and extremely costly.

Employers to pay 20% National Insurance on foreign workers (compared to 13.8% for British citizens) - that is discrimination as it would make legal foreign residents unemployable. That is the best proof that they're full-on xenophobic.

Banning students from bringing partners and children to the UK - British higher education is one of our assets, this would make it a lot less attractive. Look at what's going on in the US right now and how Trump is taking the wrecking ball to the Ivy League. It's a demolition business. Reform is not more of a friend to our culture than MAGA is to American culture.

Tax cuts for small businesses including introducing a corporation tax free allowance of £100k in profits and lifting the threshold when businesses have to be VAT registered to £150k from £90k. - on paper I like this one, I'd benefit from this personally but money doesn't grow on trees and it's not clear at all how that's been costed.

£35bn-a-year raid on banks - sounds cool (especially considering previous point) but this risks raising the cost of borrowing for people and businesses.

Scrapping targets for net zero - fashionable sound bite right now... but climate deregulation is real. This is a populist and defeatist angle really. Planet's fucked, head in sand, let's make loads of ££ until we die. Numerous studies have projected a real and very nasty economic shock in the next decades directly due to climate events. And we will see REAL immigration when it hits the fan... Basically the costs will be so much higher if we do nothing. If Reform had a revolutionary manifesto on resources and energy management, I'd talk differently, but they don't. Just like 'drill baby drill' Trump.

Adult social care; Reform would set up a royal commission within the first 100 days of a new government and make a plan - How vague. They're not the only party to want to tackle the issue but there is nothing concrete on the tax incentives envisaged, who would be providing the vital services etc.

It's ALL vague, hazily budgeted soundbites. No concrete, workable solutions to any of the real issues, be it international trade, immigration, social care, the environment. It's hollow.

Scratch under the surface and you find a patriarchal 'white males will fix it' agenda (and British Empire nostalgics). There are numerous hints at a pro-natalist approach and I bet you the 'solution' to a lot of the issues will be to chain women back to the sink. If you liked having a choice, steer clear of them.

Believe it or not £13k is considered sufficient for this man to live on, he will in fact be paying some income tax . The threshold for pension credit for a single person is the princely sum of £11,804. You are online and so could easily do quick Google before posting