Reform winning big

[Keirawr]

Reform had a good night, winning county councils, probably will win a mayoral seat and won the parliamentary by election also.

You don’t have to be a Reform voter to acknowledge that they are taking votes off Labour. Or that they are being electorally effective.

No doubt the ‘basket of deplorables’ crowd will be along in a min with their usual quips calling reform voters names, having learned absolutely 0 from Brexit. Insult the voters at your peril.

These same people also totally miss the point that winning is winning. Feeling all moral and superior about ‘oh well, what will they actually do’ changes nothing.

Perhaps those who label everyone that wants immigration limiting as ‘racist’ Will think again. But likely not.

Me me me me me
looking out for #1
thats how you vote.

Stupid is as stupid does. I would be favour in a test before you can vote like the Citizenship Test - 20 multiple choice questions - not that difficult and you need to get 80% to vote. Could be a free test - so one you have to be arsed to do the test and two you have to pass it.

Isn't that how everyone votes?

No, not everyone

To make any sense of this thread, a comparison of party leaders use of grammar would be helpful. Did I hear the hallowed Jenkyns woman say 'was' instead of 'were' this morning? I think I did. Twice. Sack her now, not fit to hold office. Although her English usage is the least of it.

And whose fault is that? Those pesky disabled on benefits? The immigrants who are also working with no benefits? Or maybe it’s the rich old boys club of which Farage and his buddies are members taking and taking from the country?

So you’ve just completely agreed with my opinion on the dominant view of the major parties towards SAHPs
Yes I have.

I have every right to exercise my democratic right to vote in a way that fully expresses my strong disagreement with them.
Yes you do of course. And as you are an intelligent woman, Cambridge educated no less, I assume you have questioned your local Reform candidate on how they are going to fund their election promises? I mean wouldn't we all want to live in the utopia they describe in their manifesto but has it been independently costed? Have they indicated where the finance is coming from to fund their proposed public sector spending? I don't know if they have so that's why I'm asking, not to be goady. Normally it would be suggested that taxes would increase particularly on the rich but I don't hear them say that.

I don't believe the other parties don't want the option for a parent to stay at home during the child rearing years (mum or dad) but it is an economic risk to have so many of working age economically inactive, hence the policies incentivising people to work. With an aging population and the pressure that will bring a decrease in those in the working age range contributing to the exchequer marks a massive decrease in public spending.

Wow, such emotion and fascism. Yes, the left are perfectly capable of dictating and controlling. I will give you a little anecdote of my own. When I worked in FE, during Brexit, anyone voting leave were afraid to say it because of the bullying from other lecturers. What a great example to set to students; don't have your own opinion on politics ..how dare you, unless you align with the left. I know that's a concept I glad to not be part of. My vote, my choice, my life. You do you.

If you had expressed your point this way, it would have been a contribution to the debate, what you went for was a nasty swipe imho.

One could also argue that most societies and civilisations on this earth have wanted women in the kitchen, but it's just Reform you mention (which you assimilate automatically with naziism), to taint and discredit a valid POV. Hitler loved dogs, not all dog-loving people are nazis.

...just how does that happen?

Fancy a care home with no staff? slaughter houses with no staff.... warehouses, factories etc etc no staff....

Universities gone bust?

Immigrants coming here are coming here to either work or study, they wont come here if they cannot bring in their partners or kids...

How do you stop x channel migration?

Everyone is against it but so far no one has come up with any means to stop it...

No. I tend to look at the wider picture and vote on what will be good for society as a whole and what sort of country I want to live in and the values and experience of the candidates and do those align with mine.

Yes, let's vote in right-wing bigots and watch them dismantle democracy, like they are currently doing in the US, Hungary, Israel, etc. Brilliant idea and it will be so easy to reverse the damage!

"Sir, my need is sore. / Spirits that I've cited / My commands ignore."

So what you are saying is that the only way to beat Reform is to agree with them
or at least to shut up and never contradict them? If I call a racist a racist that will just encourage them to be even more racist? We should just bow down and grovel before Farage and his cohorts or they will just punish us for insulting them by gaining even more power?

That is a horrible approach IMO. Just because they won (or rather came second to the winning Why-Bother-to-Vote party) in certain areas doesn't mean that they are right!

What I DO think is that Labour need to stop trying to be the Tories and clamping down on pensioners and disabled people and poor people, or voters will just go for anything that looks like an alternative, or more likely just not vote.

Thankfully no.

No they won’t, another free moon cheese for everyone promise that will never be funded.

Why would you vote for a party or candidate that doesn't represent your best interests or put you or your family first? Genuinely interested to gear your reasoning.

Is it some sort of self-harm compulsion that would lead people to vote against their own interests?

I'll never forget when Suella Braverman said "intergration doesn't work" and yet she's married to a white man?

People like him and Suella are confused. Donald Trump is stamping down on immigration but yet him and the rest of the so called American's are all immigrants. Trump is Farage's best friend.

The problem for Labour is they are not good for many parts of society. As felt by a fair few pensioners, businesses, farmers etc

Almost half of that million are international Uni students who will only be here a few years while paying the £25k/yr in tuition fees to our desperately cash strapped Universities.

Well I, and DH, pay mountains of income tax and we don't want it to go to you to fund your lifestyle choices.

You're happy good

Really Horse rider! Don’t equate the working class vote vs the aristocracy of the 19th century landowners and the women achieving the vote with racist reform in this country. They fought for self determination and equality when the majority of people in this country were white!

Like I said Farage and Reform ignore them at your peril. Your issue isn’t with people voting reform it’s the absolute shit show of the last 3-4 decades of labour and Conservatives. when you have labour who can’t manage their anti semitism and the conservatives and their Islamophobia - these r just two extremes never mind the glaringly obvious issue of both parties and their abject failure to deal with lack of social and racial cohesion in communities up and down the country.

Why is it if a working class person complains about a few of us brown and black people they’re racist but dear Middle Class mum in a leafy suburb moaning about the grammar school intake is predominately Asian isn’t.
As they are two examples of the nuance of racism that isn't racism when people or middle class wealthy / or educated intellectuals talk of the concept of ‘urbanisation.’ Oh but chavvy so and so doesn’t like the Asian gangs walking around.

come on we all don’t live in a bubble. It’s shit that we are having so many extremes you think I feel safe walking down the street as a non white woman or my son being hurled the n word by children from one of the top Surrey private schools- go away with your sanctimonious nonsense. I’d rather people were honest and tell me to my face than have a wolf in sheep’s clothing smiling and then desperately trying to get their precious daughter to a lily white private school then the perfectly amazing comprehensive because of the - oh you know it’s a bit loud for dear so and so - no you mean you don’t like that it’s socially and racially mixed

it’s out there - there are many people who adhere to Reform: go and march and protest fat lot of good that will do

Thankfully a lot of people have a bigger picture. They can see that it's worth voting for the good of the country, for the poor and disadvantaged to be looked after and not just for our own bank accounts to get fatter.

Frankly, I would have much preferred to be a SAHM but I had to work. I also got lumbered with all the childcare and housework as DH worked very long hours.