Reform winning big

[Keirawr]

Reform had a good night, winning county councils, probably will win a mayoral seat and won the parliamentary by election also.

You don’t have to be a Reform voter to acknowledge that they are taking votes off Labour. Or that they are being electorally effective.

No doubt the ‘basket of deplorables’ crowd will be along in a min with their usual quips calling reform voters names, having learned absolutely 0 from Brexit. Insult the voters at your peril.

These same people also totally miss the point that winning is winning. Feeling all moral and superior about ‘oh well, what will they actually do’ changes nothing.

Perhaps those who label everyone that wants immigration limiting as ‘racist’ Will think again. But likely not.

Brexit pierced the complacency of a lot of mediocre people promoted beyond their abilities who had succumbed to groupthink. It had a pretty big impact on the public discourse. I think lots of people stopped believing the mainstream media, who all said Remain would win, and sought out alternative news sources (I certainly did). Lessons still haven't been learned, of course, but to say it didn't achieve anything is insane.

Agree with your point OP.

Labour need to understand that people voted for them for change not more austerity and greyness, they want a proper Labour party that will improve things. Labour cannot out Reform Reform and they shouldn't try, Farage fans will vote Reform no matter what. They need to concentrate on their own core voters and try to win Tory centre left voters and those who vote Reform because of the economy.

I personally will never vote Reform, Farage has said several times that he will introduce an insurance system to the NHS, like the US system. This is something that Trump and previous US administrations have tried to push for in trade deals and I don't doubt that if he got in that he would happily SELL THE NHS to US insurance companies. I've seen US medical bills and health insurance premiums, eye watering and literally heart attack inducing! 😂

Why are they fascists, because they are hugely patriotic?

If you're at rock bottom and the mainstream parties are pissing away money on stuff that doesn't benefit you, whilst making your life harder.

Why are we always assuming many Reform voters are the impoverished and downtrodden parts of society. Just like Brexit, this narrative that there are masses of poor folk desperate for a leg up, voting against their own interests is false. Yeah there will be some, but Reform has cleaned up the vote from a type that is far from the poverty stricken citizen we are meant to be feeling sorry for while failing to understand - and listen to.

FFS Pedants Corner is a completely different Thread.
Even there they seldom argue about Headline Titles.

Me too, best PM we ever had. If he was still leading the conservatives I would have voted for them.

They care for nobody but themselves and their mates / dictatorial , believer in natural heriarchy with themselves at the top

its not to do with being patriotic but being strongly patriotic because they think they are great and everyone else must be rubbish

They are so predictable 🤣

Yes. Farage said in an interview the other day that he doesn't want the NHS funded through general taxation, but declined to explain further, simply confining himself to saying healthcare would still be "free at the point of delivery". Which of course it would be for those with health insurance.

Slippery of him. But if people want to vote for that, so be it.

It isn't anymore though.. polls show even most Labour voters think immigration is too high and we need to secure our borders.

There's a consensus that immigration is far too high. That's not even an argument. The problem is Labour or the Tories will even say it but then do the opposite and keep letting millions in.

While I do take and agree with your point I do think it would be interesting to see a breakdown of voters by:
age
gender
educational level
ethnicity
sicio-economic status

Like in America there wil be interesting patterns in voting. Of course everyone deserves political representation. Cummings was savvy in the Brexit vote, he listened to why people were angry and then created short slogans and sound bites to appeal to disenfranchised voters. Of course running a Government is much more nuanced than a 3 word slogan but that’s what a lot of people get behind, a vague idea. Likewise people vote for charismatic leaders rather than on party policies. Plus it seems manifestos aren’t worth the paper they are printed on.

Is this ubiquitous liberal narrative in the room with us now? The media I see is very clearly bias towards protecting the interests of the billionaire tycoons who own them.

I mean, why else are a party with just 5 MPs, an appalling record of racism, sexism, bigotry, lying and hate, who have literally voted against workers rights, and who spend more time side-hustling than serving their constituents being given so much air time with so little challenge?

Anyway, I'm gonna make a prediction and bookmark it to come back to later.

In 12-24 months time, Reform will have failed to improve anything in the councils they run and will have bankrupted at least a couple and Reform voters will still blame migrants, the left and labour for everything.

This. Polls suggest if there were to be another vote now, the majority would vote in favour of rejoining.

Im not at rock bottom, im doing very well financially and i have a nice house in a nice area and my friends are the same. Most of us voted Reform

How did Bishop Stortford get on who won the majority?

And Labour still will use the same old inherited black hole lines and not realise why many can’t stand them.

Me too. I love sitting in my garden waiting for the Lancaster bomber to fly over. It always reminds me of how proud I am to be English. It's lovely living in a county where virtue signallers are mocked and stood up to.

The only upside I can see about Reform being in, is now they have to deliver. If (which in my opinion is quite likely) they don't make things better people will see that.
I, personally do not agree with what they stand for particularly about climate change, the NHS or immigration...but we will see.

Saw an interview with sir somebody or other who has been on the BBC advising on politics for decades. He commented that lab and cons both need to wake up and smell the coffee - because we are no longer an adversarial 2 party system. They’ve been too complacent in assuming that other parties (libs, greens) are no threat so they constantly ignore the policy points that those parties put forward and focus on offensive/defensive strategies that only feature each other. He predicted Reform success at these elections because of this. He says this blind obstinacy is driving voters further L and R because when the alternative is each other, the electorate are increasingly rejecting both. He commented that they proceed on this basis at their peril.

Unless we change our govt to a PR system as they have in Europe, which recognises there are more than 2 parties, we are going to have a succession of governments elected by only 30% of the population (like the current one).

Not sure what the answer is given I think we rejected at least one form of PR back when the Libs shared power (it’a bit hazy… I had a new born back at the time!).

Great post. The listening bit is key, rather than just telling them they're wrong. The problem is to achieve this people have to be open minded and the people who are comfortably off (because this is I think what it boils down to) and who benefit from the current shitshow with well paid middle class jobs where they don't have any accountability don't want to listen to other people who are suffering and for whom the UK really isn't working.

There is a huge lack of humanity. Again it's ironic because these are people who will donate to the 'right' causes and identify as kind. All whilst going lalalalal and putting their fingers in their ears when it comes to their UK neighbours.

I get the protest vote aspect, I get people are upset and frustrated.

I don’t get what people think Reform will do, I mean that genuinely. I vote for things to happen, so something gets done.

The most notable things I’ve seen that they would do nationally would be to move us to insuranced-based healthcare, and accept chlorinated chicken at the expense of British farming (Farage said British produce would become a high-end option, but don’t most people want cheap options?).

It will be interesting to see what happens where they have won.

I am calm and certainly intelligent and literate - I have a double first class degree from Cambridge University.

I read in detail all of the policies on children and families from the main parties. Reform are the only one who properly acknowledged the valid choice of Stay at Home Parents. They would increase marriage tax allowance and front load child benefit for the first 4 years of a child’s life. After years of questioning both Labour and Conservative politicians about what they would do for families like mine, they couldn’t explain about anything other than more hours of free childcare, which I don’t need or want. I didn’t want my babies in childcare from 9 months old, I don’t want my 2 lovely (now a bit older) children at free breakfast clubs, I love having breakfast with my children.

Being a SAHM is the most important part of my life, and I am delighted to find a party which does not ignore my choice and would actually do more to support families like ours. I’m very disappointed with the other parties on this issue.

Dream on.

I'd be interested to know what these "working people" think of Farages plans to privatise the NHS, they must be working very hard indeed to earn enough to be OK under those plans.

Never mind, some of us with "migrant" backgrounds have access to healthcare in other countries.

Enjoy the shit country you're creating.

There's a lot of truth in the old saying:

At first they ignore you,
Then they laugh at you,
Then they fight you,
Then you win.