Demonic Possession

[scorpiogirly]

Do you believe?

I've been watching a lot of podcasts on YouTube lately with exorcist from the church.

I'm torn. Do you believe?

Maybe possessed by Dionysus?

What do you think are the differences you can use to tell a possessed person apart from a mentally ill one?

That's interesting.

How do you tell a possessed person from a mentally ill one? Are there any particular signs?

Btw, Under The Shadow is a great Iranian horror film about a woman and her daughter being menaced by a jinn during the Iran-Iraq war.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under_the_Shadow&ved=2ahUKEwi68-bKqLKSAxWIUUEAHThBCBQQFnoECEMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3ipC-KVCEehWIG1-zVEG2e

Yep, biblical inerrancy is primarily a US evangelical thing.

Are you a Calvinist? Or another denomination believing in predestination?

Do you think there are signs to tell if someone is genuinely possessed?

Was it the one called Demonic Foes by Richard Gallagher?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.amazon.co.uk/Demonic-Foes-Psychiatrist-Investigates-Possessions/dp/0062876473&ved=2ahUKEwiLjdqOqrKSAxUDR0EAHc9mNzwQFnoECFAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1d5vEL1Yp-ydhT84Ebdl0h

Your poor grandfather.

I wonder how often this might be the reason for a perceived demon/ghost etc.. I have an interest in Native American tribes & on a subreddit for one once, I spoke to a lady who said several people in her area belonging to her tribe had seen a skinwalker (shape-shifting ghost tribes often traditionally believed in). Several other things she said made me wonder if someone was deliberately trying to scare them to get their land, which wouldn't be a first in US history sadly..

I don't really know. A lot of that information is confidential so he cant tell me.

What’s with all the crazy posts on mumsnet today?!

This is quite worrying these people are operating in society.

This is an old post obviously stumbled upon (or searched for) by one individual - I worry about unethical scientists and medics and left wingers in society rather than those with private spiritual beliefs.

The term 'Shame and Blame' springs readily mind. Look at the vicious hysteria that resulted in the Witch Trials.

I think its highly unlikely to exist, highly and suspect that its significant mental illness and churchy snakeoil but Ralph Sarchie's book deliver us from evil was an interesting read.

You find left wingers per se worrying? Or just unethical ones?

I think it's quite clear that belief in Demonic possession is worrying if this 'private spiritual belief' makes people avoid medical help for potential mental health problems.

Can you explain what you mean by the eyes being dark? I've heard people say similar things before about people having night terrors and so on. Obviously the iris can't actually change colour, so I can never quite picture what they mean.

I think the pupils must be enormous so there’s not much iris, but the whites disappear too. I don’t know whether it’s possible for the eyeballs to sink deeper into the socket, I think it’s associated with dehydration, maybe low blood pressure? Certainly he was pale and waxy, which also tallies with low BP.

I go ind left wingers generally quite worrying hence the two “ands”.

if someone wants to avoid medical treatment so be it. Tbh I found occultism far more effective in relation to my adhd, ptsd and anxiety than any therapist I’ve met.

Thanks for the clarification.

Occultism? Wait, I thought you were Christian? Or am I mixing you up with another pp?
I get the argument re spiritual treatment helping mental health & I'm glad it helped you. But at the same time,,some mental health problems do have treatments that work, and would be dangerous to only treat via spiritual methods : schizophrenia, BPD among others. It's generally cases like this where exorcism produces the worst results (Anneliese Michel for one). Moreover, someone with schizophrenia etc might not be competent to understand the implications of only having spiritual treatment rather than medical.

Yes, I do. Perhaps not in the conventional sense (levitation and rotating heads) but in the sense that the occult is a ‘door’ you can open, but once opened, you can’t close it again and anything or anyone can come through.

I think you can unwittingly invite dark forces into your life, and I would strongly encourage anyone not to risk it

I’m RC and I think the difference is that possession generally coincides with the possessed person doing things that shouldn’t be possible within their body/strength. There’s also a fixation on Satanic rituals and aversion to Holy imagery.

I’ve seen a lot of very mentally unwell people but they never appear possessed.

Agree. I used to be very interested in that stuff and I wish I hadn't now as my mental health is quite fragile and anything could've happened to me. I also have a sibling with Schizophrenia. He was actually convinced at one point during psychosis that this ornament we had was cursing people. He told me a couple stories about how one of his friends destroyed it because he kept going on and on about it and then something terrible happened to the person...I have no idea if it's true or not, probably not! He was convinced at the time.

Anyway, nothing ever happened to me thankfully-I would've thought it was the coolest thing back then but now I realise you don't want to mess with that kind of thing. I did lose all belief in it but who knows what's out there really. I know you can lose your mind and that's very real.

Thank you, that's interesting.

All of those things could, however, also be caused by mental illness.

During acute psychosis, mania, dissociation, or extreme fear, adrenaline and reduced pain perception can let people exert far more force than usual. People in excited delirium, severe mania, or psychotic breaks have restrained multiple adults or injured themselves badly without reacting to pain. It looks supernatural because it’s rare and frightening, but it’s still within human physiology

Aversion to holy imagery is especially culture-dependent. Someone raised Catholic who develops delusions may fixate on guilt, sin, Satan, demons, or hell. Aversion to crosses, holy water, prayers, etc. can come from trauma, OCD, psychosis, or dissociation. In other cultures, people show the same pattern — but with different religious symbols, eg. In Islamic contexts, jinn.

Religious OCD (scrupulosity) can cause obsessive thoughts about Satan or evil. Psychosis often borrows imagery that’s emotionally charged and familiar. If someone already believes Satan is real and dangerous, the mind may build delusions around that framework. People don’t usually fixate on Satan if they weren’t already exposed to those ideas. The content reflects prior belief.

Anecdotally, I've had the experience of seeing my 90 year old grandmother fight off 4 nurses. She wasn't possessed, she was in the throes of delirium- which fortunately cleared up!