Living beyond our means.. will it ever end!

[Wharawho]

Aibu, to be completely fed up with living month to month and barely being able to pay for everything?

For context, we're a family of five... me, DH and 3DS.(7, 6 & 3)
Household income of £70k
3 bed semi- mortgaged (nearly £1k a month- this double last feb when the interest rate went up 😞)
2 cars (15yo car paid off and family car on pcp at £450p/m)
For context we need the family car to fit all 3 kids carseats in and I also require a big car for my business. I hate having finance, but we can't work without two cars or even go out as a family if we had one small car! And we definitely don't have the money to buy another outright.

Despite what I think is a reasonable household income, 1 week after being paid, almost every penny is claimed by our household bills and expenses and we spend the rest of the month penny pinching.
We're one big unexpected bill away from not being able to buy the shopping and I'm fed up of it to be honest!
We don't have big expensive holidays or eat out/ have lots of takeaways.
If anything I'd say we live quite modestly... we've lived in the same house for 6 years and still haven't be able to finish renovating it, as we don't have the money!
I haven't had my hair cut for 2 years, as I can't commit that much money to myself... I'm also in desperate need of a new pair of glasses, but I can't afford to buy a new pair ( I have to wear them all the time!)
Days out tend to be outdoor places, with a homemade picnic and maybe an ice cream for the kids!

We buy our clothes from places like Tesco and primark, rarely do me and DH get anything only when we really need something, just the kids and we pass down clothes through our boys as they grow to save on money.
The kids attend swimming lessons once a week, this is their only "luxury" or "extra thing" they do I'm all honesty, and something we prioritise, as we think it's important that they can swim! Even this I price shopped for the cheapest lessons to make sure we pay as little as possible!
We do have the typical Netflix, Disney etc and go for a Costa 2 times each month, but again nothing extravagant... just living and trying enjoy small pleasures and have something to look forward to!

I paid myself today and after all of our bills and food money we literally have £160 to last the month,.. which includes entertaining the kids, buying school clothes/shoes, treats, covering unexpected expenses or car/house repairs!
We don't have enough to save for a rainy day fund and the minute something comes up, any savings we do have are gone and we're back to square 1!
Last month the 15yo car needed new brakes/ discs and a few other bits to pass its mot, setting us back £500.... we paid for it on our monzo flex (we only use this in emergencies when we really can't afford and pay it back ASAP!) but now this has left us short last month and this month paying it back! (As I say... one bill away from despair)

I work for myself, from home and my business requires lots if space (I've converted our garage)... however my business is limited by my space and to grow and make more money I need a bigger work space/ bigger home.... which we can't afford!

How do people afford to go on holidays, have big flash cars and big 4 bed detached houses?!?!
18 year old me would have been thrilled to bring in £70k... but here we are struggling to make it through to the end of each month!

I guess this is just a rant really, as I'm feeling so deflated looking at our bank balance before the month has even started! 😞
Please tell me I'm not the only one experiencing this!

I think you're making the right decision with your business and you should continue pursuing that. It's a new business and might take some time to make more money. Life is too short to be in a job you hate!

With 70k, you should be able to live comfortably. You need to look at all your expenses - the car on PCP should go asap. Could you get a similar one on finance with a lower monthly cost? Eg. Older car that's still big enough?

I'm a SAHM and DH earns 70k - so on less than you as not eligible for child benefit and more tax paid than if it was split between 2 incomes. We have 2 kids so fewer food/activities cost but similar mortgage and still end up with 1-1.5k leftover at the end of the month.

We don't buy clothes or school uniform every month - why do the kids need new uniform items every month? Surely you buy uniform once or twice a year? And what about food - could you be spending too much on snacks/experience ingredients? Maybe there's room to save here.

You mention going to Costa every fortnight. Is it just for coffee or do you buy food as well? I imagine if you all get a drink/cake/sandwich then probably it adds up to a lot.

And bills - what's your gas/electric and water like? Could you save by using less water - eg. quick showers every other day, kids bath together or using the same bath water in turns twice a week, be careful with how much you're using the washing machine. And check devices aren't being left on and unused - TVs cost a lot to run so make sure it's not on in the background, check if there's any electric equipment you could avoid using to get a lower bill, use air fryer instead of oven, etc.

I agree with posters saying it’s an income rather than expenditure issue. I’d feel so stressed about money in your shoes I think I’d look for work during school/pre-school hours (even a school office type job for maximum flexibility) and do my hobby-business during evenings/weekends.

AliceMcK had some good points.

Car seems expensive but necessary and you need something reliable. Could you change the terms? Extend for six months and pay slightly less per month?

Can you contact mortgage company and remortgage in any way by extending the term of the mortgage (could do this and then make extra payments if you had extra money any month).

Look at tips on Money Saving Expert.

Swap out Disney / Netflix subscriptions as others have said. Do you have Sky? That can be expensive.
Vinted and charities for clothes. Is there any organisation set up locally for cheaper school uniform?

It looks as though you’ve looked at food shop and left overs / meal planning but can you shave anything off this by buying more discount brands? Also other stuff like signing up for Tesco Clubcard etc depending on where you shop.

you can get a £150 often for changing personal bank accounts.

For a month or two write down every single penny you spend and see what’s going where. Make sure you include annual costs. Or better still go over last year if you have records. If you pay for anything annually, can you pay anything monthly like house or car insurance? Might be slightly more but would help your budget.

Can you increase your prices for your work especially for those weddings that are further away. Have some circles drawn around your house with a slightly higher cost for larger circles to cover fuel? Work out approx number of trips per job, mileage and fuel costs then devise total costs of petrol/diesel for different areas or towns nearby. I cover areas X, Y and Z. Charges will be £ in place X I live but ££ in area Y covering towns A, B and C and £££ in area Z covering towns D, E & F?
Is there anything you can trim from your business? Do you have a printer and ink costs? Is it cheaper to commercially print anything instead?
Can you offer added extras and bump up the price on any way? Offer to get table decorations and add them to the price etc plus some?

I assume you’ve checked out deals / fixes for gas and electric. Do you have a water meter? How much water do you use? Can you reduce this in any way? Filling toilet cisterns to use less water per flush. Can you be more aware of electricity usage in terms of size of load and frequency of using washing machine and consider how frequently you use tumble drier if you have one? Light bulbs when you come to replacing them etc. We saved a lot of money on gas / winter heating by having app controlled radiator valves (although there is a set up cost) but even thermostat radiator valves would help if you don’t have these. Guess there’s other things you can try to do which isn’t particularly helpful now given summer is approaching.

Does hubby need to go into office two days a week? Seems like a very long commute and a lot of fuel. Can he negotiate to go into office one day per week? Or three times every two weeks?

Seem you do lots of free stuff like picnics etc. but take time for you too (difficult with three children). Try not to get so stressed about it as it’ll affect everything like sleep etc.

So you’re not wiling to increase your earning capacity, chose to have 3 kids and spend £450 a month on a car? Yet, don’t seem to take any responsibility for feeling like you don’t have enough money. You’re earning minimum wage. The solution is simple, you need to earn more money, which you’ve admitted you could do but don’t want to do something you don’t ‘love’. I don’t love my job but I’m paid well above minimum wage, I have one child and I pay £135 a month on a loan repayment for my car. We all make choices, it’s time to start realising that the choices you’ve made have got you to this point and until you choose to change something then you won’t have more money.

That's a choice you've made then. It's not either, or - 'work for myself or work for the NHS'. Other jobs are out there.

I'm not thrilled with my job and I don't absolutely love it, but wages are decent and pension is brilliant, so I suck it up for my family.

We are on a joint income of £70k.

We have nothing on finance. Husband has a ford focus and I have a 20 yr old fiesta. I really couldn't give a shit about cars. As long as it gets us from A to B in a safe manner.

We save for things we want OR get a credit card with 0% finance and plan to pay it off within the 0% timescale.

We only have 1 child and we do have a mortgage which has increased with the rates, but we're in the NW, so we're okay.

The £450 a month on a car is absolutely insane and between that and only being prepared to work for minimum wage as long as you love it, is the issue.

The problem with PCP’s is they’re a bit of a trap. You’re going to outlay somewhere between £16-21k over the term, and not own the car at the end (unless you give them another lump sum). Vs that budget with a bank loan would get you a low mileage used car, which you’d own at the end. So you’d have an asset to sell if you wanted to replace the car, or you could just run it into the ground over the years.

For example: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202412036964459?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios-app
£390 per month on a bank loan over 5yrs (nationwide), and you’ll own it at the end.
You can pick up a used one with 70k on the clock for £8/9k which gives you an idea of what the value in the car might be once the loan is paid off. So if you did chip it in, you’d be able to further reduce your monthly payments, but still refresh your car regularly, as your new loan you wouldn’t need to borrow as much.

If you tooth comb your expenses with this mindset, I’m sure you’ll find pockets of savings to be had.

To me this is life, now I’m 57 and have a bit extra, my 30’s and 40’s where such a struggle and only once did I get into debt, never again! Took my 5 years to pay off £5000 in the 90’s.
You are being resourceful, and I feel setting a good example to your DC .
just think when interest rates come down and the cost of living in general, you’ll be quids in !! Doesn’t feel like it now, ( I can hear all the back lash now of the doom squad, I must be joking , it’s never going to change. Well sod them )
it will get better, spending time with family and making memories days out to parks and maybe seeing if a friend has a holiday home, caravan or even camping is a great way to have a cheap break, ask your friends and family for suggesting or burrow some camping gear and get out there and kick back.
As someone else suggested, have a look on MSE site has lots of info.
I never had a pot to P*sa in, and always on minimum wage.
Be kind to yourself and tell yourself you’re doing great, cos you are !!

Assuming you are using your business as tax efficiently as you can? Eg your car on pcp that is used for work is a business expense? The part of mortgage that covers your converted garage? Etc.

No, that’s not credible.

You can tell your Clients you are closing the business as it is unprofitable ( .. which it seems to be, as if you subtract the cost of your car then you are making less than NMW ).

Lots of businesses shut down, particularly those that are unprofitable.

We currently have to pay £350 a month to hmrc, due to a tax cock up made by one of my Husband's previous employers from 3 years ago who didn't tax him right at the time

When this ends, it will start to feel a lot easier - your disposable income will increase by £350 pm, which is a noticeable amount - nearly pays your car payment.

What happens when the car contract ends? Will you own the car without payments, or will you need to take out a new agreement (or pay a balloon payment) to keep the car? If it's a new/nearly new car, will you be able to get a loan at a lower monthly payment, to buy the car and keep it (assuming it's worth the money they want for it of course). Hopefully then the car will last longer than the loan does.

Over the holidays we took the boys out for one day out at a national trust type thing... £40 entrance, £16 ice cream

If you like visiting those types of places, look into membership. Family membership of the National Trust itself is about £120 per year, so you only need to go more than 3 times a year for it to be a cheap day out. Or there's often free tickets in the newspapers - eg this week there's the semi regular Reach Media offer.

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/free-national-trust-family-day-pass-with-purchase-of-newspaper-reach-plc-newspapers-4585375

The cheapest paper to do this is the Daily Star in the week rather than at the weekend. To avoid embarrassment and annoyance at the trash contained within I recommend donning a disguise, buying it from somewhere anonymous like a large supermarket and paying at the self service till. Hope you don't bump into anyone you know.

When you get home, go straight to the voucher page, cut it out and recycle the paper without looking at it .

On ice creams, I know it's a nice treat to have an ice cream while out, but it's so much more expensive than having it at home from the supermarket or even bought from a convenience store on the way home. I bought 3 Magnums from the Co-op yesterday for £2. A single one from 'an attraction' would cost £3 at least.

Second the recommendation to only have one TV subscription at a time and rotate round. Also look out for offers. Now TV can be had for 50 to 75% off the full price if you cancel. However, as far as I can tell, there aren't similar offers on the others apart from the free month trial and a small discount for paying for a year at a time rather than monthly.

Finally, are you charging enough for your self employment? Look at inflation and the increase in NMW over the last few years and make sure that, if possible, these increases have been factored into the rates you charge.

You need to get a proper job that’s paying much more than minimum wage. You are not in a position to grow your business, and will stagnate as you see. Things will never improve.

70k today is the equivalent to 55k 5 years ago. Most salaries haven't kept up with inflation.

You will get told you don't earn by half of the posters the other half will tell you earn way too much & have a spending problem.

3 dc on 70k is tough & the high car loan isn't helping.

I can relate. My situation is like yours with the same household income. Posted something like your post ages ago as we also live pay slip to payslip and I feel the same as you. I found many Mumsnetters to be wealthy and felt in the minority which I am sure is not true. I live rural and also need two cars and got sarcastic comments as though I was lying about living out in the countryside. Point is, posting on here, people will claim to be wealthy but the I want you to know you are not alone. X

Spending money doesn't make a person happy, but not having enough money sure as hell makes people unhappy.

There is no virtuous delight in scrimping day in, day out, always having to think about the price of absolutely everything, never having any small pleasure just because. Some people do it as a lifestyle choice, almost a hobby; others do it for a little while and think they know it all. They don't.

OP, I'm afraid your car costs jumped out at me, too. What with your huge mortgage increase as well, it's a killer. No advice from me as I'm out of touch with the inner workings of vehicle finance ... is it really impossible to cut this expense by a couple of hundred?

True. However for 'the squeezed middle' of people who can pay for the basics but doesn't earn enough to spend what they like without thought, there's quite a lot that can be done to make money go as far as possible, often without a significant difference I what you buy or do, just by putting a bit of effort into getting things for the best available price.

3 children, pets, hobby job, car on finance, subscriptions ( TV and sports club). These are things most people can’t afford. You are living a luxury lifestyle and you don’t appreciate it. Itis no wonder you cannot afford holidays, new clothes etc.
As people have said, it will get better when you have paid off HMRC.

How many hours per week are you paying yourself OP?

You say its brill because you can work around the kids but with school runs and a 3yr old at home the reality is you are likely just working VERY part time and hence happier with your balance

70k is not a good combined income for a household with 3 children. 2 adults earning minimum wage and working full time will probably bring in close to 50k.3 children is a significant luxury really.
Costa twice a month is actually very expensive these days - how much are you spending on this

Sounds like you really gotta get rid of the PCP car £450 a month is just a stupid amount of money unless you got it to blow. That's like 5.5K a year you could probs buy a people carrier for £3.5 - £4 grand, that will last you a few years. look for one that's been looked after. Then you're golden. At least £500 in savings a month from that point forwards.

You’re right to take stock and if you won’t cut subscriptions and car costs then I think you should take a better paying job to increase your income.
You’re one emergency from debt - that’s really expensive currently - you need some kind of buffer. Presently you can’t do what you want to do - cheap trips with the children would be a normal part of childhood for me.

If you are on 10k a year you are likely qualifying for a fair few benefits, housing costs potentially paid etc.

Its not comparable

Well no, she said she wants the love of a pet, the possibility of owning books, and to learn about the world by going on holiday. Hardly the ‘I need money to do my nail, Botox and Starbucks’

Stick with doing what you love!

I honestly think your car is the biggest problem here. If you give it up and save, you could afford a banger within a couple of months. Is that doable logistically?

First stage is to list and analyse ALL spending for the last 3 months, both of you. Then you can see where the money is going. My son pays more than £1k on rent for a tiny one bed flat so your mortgage is pretty low. £450 on a car lease is insane. But where does all the other money go?

When does H finish paying HMRC? That’s your monthly buffer there.

3kids, a pet, 2 cars, mortgage. That will make you skint for sure.

Your income isn’t bad, it’s not, 70k when you have a 3 yr old is not bad.

We had no chance to save or put into pensions when we had a 3 yr old.

If you look at just you car expenditure for last month it’s another mortgage but that’s what they cost.

So I would try and not stress about savings, and think about earning more. You say you need more space to expand your business could you get that by building high shelves, getting a small but waterproof damp proof garden shed, use some of your bedroom space, you only really sleep in a bedroom.

£1k on a mortgage might seem a lot but renting is more. That is what housing costs.

You probably know this but the kids are only going to cost more as time goes by, so extra income will in time not necessarily equate to more available money.

Like I said OP you are doing ok, £70k youngest 3, it’s not a bad place to be, many people are skint when they have young kids, they are usually not that old (30s say) themselves, so nowhere near peak salary. Plenty of time for career progression.

The cost to live is not going to return to the lower levels of previous years, mortgage interest rates are likely to remain steady now, food, energy, transport, bills, they won’t come down only hope is they increase slower.

I would give thought how you can expand your business (dad’s house?). He got a spare room, if it’s storage), people will always want to get married . Could you crossover to other family celebrations? 70th birthdays, christenings? You need hours and hours and time to build a new business.

You might not feel it but you guys are doing ok. It will work out. Try and find some more (free) space. If nothing else it will give you something else to think about positively, other than car costs.