Living beyond our means.. will it ever end!

[Wharawho]

Aibu, to be completely fed up with living month to month and barely being able to pay for everything?

For context, we're a family of five... me, DH and 3DS.(7, 6 & 3)
Household income of £70k
3 bed semi- mortgaged (nearly £1k a month- this double last feb when the interest rate went up 😞)
2 cars (15yo car paid off and family car on pcp at £450p/m)
For context we need the family car to fit all 3 kids carseats in and I also require a big car for my business. I hate having finance, but we can't work without two cars or even go out as a family if we had one small car! And we definitely don't have the money to buy another outright.

Despite what I think is a reasonable household income, 1 week after being paid, almost every penny is claimed by our household bills and expenses and we spend the rest of the month penny pinching.
We're one big unexpected bill away from not being able to buy the shopping and I'm fed up of it to be honest!
We don't have big expensive holidays or eat out/ have lots of takeaways.
If anything I'd say we live quite modestly... we've lived in the same house for 6 years and still haven't be able to finish renovating it, as we don't have the money!
I haven't had my hair cut for 2 years, as I can't commit that much money to myself... I'm also in desperate need of a new pair of glasses, but I can't afford to buy a new pair ( I have to wear them all the time!)
Days out tend to be outdoor places, with a homemade picnic and maybe an ice cream for the kids!

We buy our clothes from places like Tesco and primark, rarely do me and DH get anything only when we really need something, just the kids and we pass down clothes through our boys as they grow to save on money.
The kids attend swimming lessons once a week, this is their only "luxury" or "extra thing" they do I'm all honesty, and something we prioritise, as we think it's important that they can swim! Even this I price shopped for the cheapest lessons to make sure we pay as little as possible!
We do have the typical Netflix, Disney etc and go for a Costa 2 times each month, but again nothing extravagant... just living and trying enjoy small pleasures and have something to look forward to!

I paid myself today and after all of our bills and food money we literally have £160 to last the month,.. which includes entertaining the kids, buying school clothes/shoes, treats, covering unexpected expenses or car/house repairs!
We don't have enough to save for a rainy day fund and the minute something comes up, any savings we do have are gone and we're back to square 1!
Last month the 15yo car needed new brakes/ discs and a few other bits to pass its mot, setting us back £500.... we paid for it on our monzo flex (we only use this in emergencies when we really can't afford and pay it back ASAP!) but now this has left us short last month and this month paying it back! (As I say... one bill away from despair)

I work for myself, from home and my business requires lots if space (I've converted our garage)... however my business is limited by my space and to grow and make more money I need a bigger work space/ bigger home.... which we can't afford!

How do people afford to go on holidays, have big flash cars and big 4 bed detached houses?!?!
18 year old me would have been thrilled to bring in £70k... but here we are struggling to make it through to the end of each month!

I guess this is just a rant really, as I'm feeling so deflated looking at our bank balance before the month has even started! 😞
Please tell me I'm not the only one experiencing this!

I don’t mean this in a horrible way but I think you both might need to review your jobs/careers and see if you can retrain, get promoted or get higher pay elsewhere

the cost of living is high but I think at on average £35k each (?) you possibly could search around for better pay.

Your insistence on running your own business and in your words only earning minimum wage is not conducive to having expensive car leases and all your multiple subscriptions etc.
you are clearly overspending somewhere. We would all love to have a dream job where we don’t work Summer and don’t have to pay for childcare but you are still paying for ‘ad hoc’ childcare and despite no longer being a wage slave for some reason you’re still struggling and complaining.
If your business isn’t profitable then get a salaried job or cut your cloth according to your current means.
I know lots of mumsnetters are quite affluent but for me, your family income is a HUGE amount of money. I can’t afford to have one car, let alone two.

It really isn’t jealousy. It’s frustration. I lose count of how many people (mainly women) I see on social media crowdfunding to support their business dream or slating people for shopping in Asda or ikea when they should be supporting their friends and buying their bespoke luxury items for crazy expensive prices.
emotive posts guilt tripping people into ‘buying local’ to help support a family and ’pay for a child’s dance lessons’ or similar bullshit.

its anger at seeing many, many kids being exploited by small business owners who purposely advertise for school leavers or apprentices so they can pay below the minimum wage

it’s anger at seeing the salaried spouse working their arse off and becoming depressed so their partner can teach two yoga classes a week or sit in their pretty little shop that only opens for a random two hours on Tuesday / Thursday , Saturday and the occasional Sunday .

I lose count of the times I’ve gone to an independent store/ stall and balked at the price only to receive a long lecture on the incredible expense, sacrifice and overheads that are necessary to keep the business going.

Christmas and craft markets are a case in point.
the amount of miserable stall holders I see put me off buying from them as it kills my spirit and listening to their spiel Is boring, and takes all the joy out of shopping there .

unless it’s making genuine money to support whoever it needs to support, it’s selfish and self indulgent .

We have a similar income, 2 children and our mortgage is half what yours is and our cars are paid off and we’re still overdrawn at the end of each month, I can’t see how you’re managing at all! Hats off to you.

@Willyoujustbequiet

The OP said £70,000 in her opening post. She did not say gross. That is virtually double and puts her just shy of the top 10%.

OP very clearly stated that their total monthly income is £4.8k net in another post.

Firstly, I can sympathise, were a family of 3 with average 60k, we live comfortably (I am not complaining!) and can save throughout the year for one holiday, but it isn't without effort. We certainly can't afford another child comfortably. I feel like every funding cut/ rise in cost hits us as a working family. My husband commented the other day that he now only earns minimally more per hour than someone who joins their company at the bottom. As minimum wage increases, the wages above don't rise proportionally, but the costs of everything else do. A good example is the trust I work for decided that car parking charging are increasing, so all band 5 and above staff will pay more per month, all those below aren't affected. Just another example of my wage being eaten away at, without any recognition because "I'm on a decent wage". Anyway rant over.

I think budget is your way forward, over £400 for a car I find quite high personally, we have a small SUV 21 plate on HP for less than £200. Is it worth shopping around for better interest rates? Same with your mortgage, you may find you have equity and the interest rates are lowering ATM, so may work in your favour.

I'm considering changing jobs, to be more local and improve our situation, purely to remove the cost and time of a daily commute, but only you know what you are willing to sacrifice on the work front .

National trust thing you psid £62 for one visit, get an annual subscription. We pay £10 a month but can go anytime. Take snacks with you.

Your dads birthday meal and present cost you around £150, cut your cloth say next time yes to the present, no to the meal. Be upfront with family, suggest everyone brings something for a buffet or just mert gor drinks. You would have saved over £200. Start thinking of ways you can do these things but in a more economical way.

That’s impressive!

You’ve explained this well. I think that statistic about “median” income isn’t interpreted or thought about well on here often. As you say it does include part time workers and retired etc.

It will also include some single person households like mine. What I need (no kids /no dependents) to earn to live comfortably is different from a family of 5.

Also can I ask if this income the statistics refer to includes UC? If not this also skews things as some people may be receiving more than on paper. I know some people with 3 kids who only earn X amount but the reality is they come home with X and £1000+ due to UC.

Aah too late to edit - I said median but I think what I really meant to say was average as that’s the term the ONS report uses. 👀

National Trust membership is great value. But only if you live reasonably near to a decent property that suits your family needs. We live 15 mins from a fab property which has parkland gardens and one of the best play areas. But there are many properties which don't offer this and you would be better going to a local park or beauty spot for free.

It’s probably already been said but you need to ask a pensioner on £220 a week where you can cut costs. I’m sure they’d start with Netflix & Disney!

I love my job and it comes with a decent salary, paid holiday and a pension.

I’m not jealous of the OP - she deserves all credit for not going the MLM route. I’m just not clear on whether she’s actually making any money since she hasn’t clarified whether NMW means £25,000 a year or £12.21 an hour for each hour worked while she only works 10 or so hours a week.

If the latter, taking into account the work expenses she lists as paying from income (a mistake a lot of new small business owners make), she doesn’t have a job, she has a hobby while her life is funded by her DH.

Even if the former, she is still not making NMW because expenses should be deducted first.

Either would be fine if she and her DH were well off enough to allow her to be a SAHM but her posts are about the fact they aren’t or at least are struggling to fund that lifestyle.

I think the issue is the cost of basics has just gone up and keeps going up. Hugs. I think if you work hard and keep going it will grow. praying that you find that sweet spot.

140k yearly here with 2 kids. Mortgage is 3.5k for an 3 bed house. Every month is a struggle. I know it’s all relative but 20 years ago I would have been living the life on that salary but we absolutely do not. I won’t cut down on kids activities or our food shop otherwise what’s the point of earning that much?! everything’s so expensive and the tax is killing me. We go on 1 holiday a year. Nothing fancy. Fed up.

Hi OP, I’m curious to know what your business is doing? I’m in a similar situation, dreaming of leaving a healthcare job that burns me out, and doing something that will minimise the need for childcare!

So £70k income is around £4,600 after tax (assuming an equal wage on both partners of £35k, no student loan and a small 4% pension contribution), your mortgage and car payment comes up at £1450, typical family spent for food a month around £550 , that's £2k, what are you spending £2.6 k a month on?

Let's say
Council tax is £250
Home and contents insurance £20,
Subscriptions £30
Energy £200 ( ours is higher but just going with the size house you mentioned)
Life insurance £20
Car insurance on your family car (other should be paid from the business before you pay yourself a wage) £30
2x Costas a month let's say £50 to make it even £600

That still leaves you with £2k , you need to have a hard look at your bank accounts and see where the money is going, I know that there are other family expenses clothes, activities etc but your bills would be more or less as above, that means you have £2k for phones , activities and house maintenance, so I really think you are not aware of where your money is going.

You sound like a miserable human. I'm sure shopping on Amazon etc gives you much more life happiness because you don't have to hear the warehouse workers struggles etc.

I've never been to a market and had a stall owner give me a lecture on the cost of the goods etc. That they do to you suggests you give them a lecture on the price of their goods which makes you sound lovely.

Big elephant in the room here "it's a Labour government kick them out !

If you reread I replied to another commentator who quoted £70k not the monthly figure. That was in addition to that opening post.

Hi, I'm going to be one of those older people I'm afraid who point out the obvious here! We brought up two children in a very modest 3 bed semi for 27 years. I worked part time whilst my children were newborn and right through their childhood and my husband was never a big earner really. Luckily he had a company car so that saved us alot of money over the years. But I gave up my car when we had our second child as we couldn't afford to run a car then - I was carless until he was 7! I just walked everywhere and caught buses occasionally. We definitely didn't pop to Costa, didn't eat out or have takeaways, days out were of the free variety - picnic and the park, museums as they were free. Holidays for years were a day at the seaside which cost nothing other than the petrol and an ice cream. We first took our children abroad when the youngest was 8 and the eldest 14. We couldn't afford swimming lessons or activities at the weekend such as visiting the zoo or theme parks. We went to Legoland for our son's 6th birthday - I saved up the cereal packet tops for months! I used to go to NCT sales twice a year to buy clothes - £10 would get you a bagful of items which would get you through the summer/winter. I also relied on hand me downs from friends and family. I know this sounds like a sob story from the 1930s or 40s but this was late 80s, early 90s so not that long ago really! Most of my friends were in the same position. Interest rates were high and our mortgage and bills left very little spare money each month. My point is really that these years where you are raising a family are the sacrifice years. You work hard, try not to get into debt too much, entertain the children as cheaply as you can and you get through it!

We are now in our 60s and obviously our children are grown up and married with children of their own. We are now reaping the rewards for all those years of sacrifice. We have been mortgage free for 13 years now, run two cars and holiday abroad. I don't have my pension yet but we're still able to enjoy a good life, though meals out and takeaways are still an occasional treat! We definitely don't need to pop out for coffee - ever! Neither do we have Netflix or Disney, expensive phones or new cars.

Honestly, it will come to an end eventually! But at the moment you have three young children and a mortgage to pay, plus food and bills. It is hard, but you just make the sacrifices necessary and eventually come out the other side. Keep going and enjoy your children's growing up years - they soon pass and you get your reward! 🥰

Hi OP,

I haven’t read all the replies, got about halfway through and wanted to comment as a fellow start up also finding it tough to cover all costs at the moment.

Have you considered how you could create a passive income as part of your business?

There will be a lot of people who would like to use your service for their wedding but can’t afford to.

Could you create some PDF “how to DIY your perfect wedding” guides?

Some template invitations, or other things, that you can put on Etsy or similar to download?

This means only doing the work once, and then hopefully being about to generate a passive income from it.

Can you branch out to other event types, baby showers, first birthdays etc without needing to invest in additional equipment?

Can you partner with a local business where you might find a new customer base?

I think you can grow your income within your business.

Wishing you lots of luck!

The costs of everything has gone up. We are two adults on a reasonable income raising 3 children. We are renovating our home at a snails pace as we just can't afford to go any faster. A week after payday and I have very little left and need to work to stretch it to next payday. All my outgoings go out within 3 days of being paid so bills, mortgage and food shop are budgeted for. The popping in for bread and milk ruin me as I end up picking up bits mid week. Just really frustrating that we both work full time through the year and still have to count the pennies so carefully. I live for the sales to wait for things we need such as kids clothes and shoes or broken household appliances. Most people I know who are honest are feeling the pressure

When my 3 children were younger we were a single income household on a £70k wage which equated to around £4k /m and a £1.3k/m mortgage. We definitely struggled. We only stopped struggling when I got a job as well initially p/t £1k/m then full time for a few years earning around £30-35k that allowed us to save and pay off the mortgage.

I have now dropped a day so I can improve my work life balance and as dh may be offered redundancy our finances could change drastically.

Our children are now 16-20 and at uni / doing GCSEs. The expenses of having two people at uni are high and we will have a graduate coming back home this summer who will need to find a job.

Ultimately if you only have £4-5k coming in life is expensive and a family of 5 is expensive. You can save by being frugal and planning every meal, not going to restaurants/ take aways, limited subscriptions, no holidays, carefully calculated budgets on spreadsheets and buying second hand etc. I did that for years... But if you want to be comfortable you need more money coming in we have £6'309 in each month which allows us to save around a thousand a month that is what gives us breathing space. Young families are expensive - good luck, there are probably savings you can make if you look at your expenditure forensically.

Our total household income is about £45,000 (after tax). We are a two adult household with an adult DS and a teenage DS. Adult DS mostly does his own thing so not much expense other than the occasional dinner or drink out. Teenage DS lives with his DM, so we pay child maintenance, with slight increased costs for food etc when we see him. We have a big dog too.

We live in a three-bed end of terrace with a mortgage of £1200ish a month. Our utilities are about £500 a month. Food is separate and I reckon we probably spend up to £300 on this, but can be less.

My tips for making the most of your income would be:

• Calculate how much you actually spend on bills (mortgage, utilities, phones, subscriptions, etc.) and put the money into a separate joint account each month. That account is solely for bills, don't touch it for anything else.
• Look at your subscriptions and see if you need them all. We have Netflix, Prime and Spotify, but individually they aren't too costly (we don't have Sky, for example, because it is just extortionate).
• Make sure you get new quotes for utilities and insurance each time your contract ends. The prices go up so much and it is so easy to just keep paying, rather than negotiating a new contract or going elsewhere, but it will save you a lot of money in the long run.
• For every shop, get their reward card. We shop at Tesco and try to use the Clubcard for everything we can. If not, we do the same at Asda etc.
• Think about what you need to save for and try to make a plan (not always easy). For example, I need to learn to drive, so have been putting aside a small amount each month to facilitate this. It has taken longer, because I might not be able to save more than £20 some months, but I know it is a goal I need to meet.

I hope this helps and doesn't sound preachy. It's just everything we do to try to have some cash each month to actually spend on treats or to save for the house.