Disgusted by school’s response to complaint about pervy teacher

[SophEll]

I had a night out a few weeks ago with a friend. In a bar, we were approached by a man (who had a male friend with him) who started talking to us. He seemed quite drunk, but explained he recognised me from past parents evenings. At this point, I realised who he was - he taught one of my DC at their old school (they’ve since left). Out of nowhere, he said to me ‘I always used to imagine what it would have been like to bend you over that desk’. I was speechless, my friend said ‘excuse me’ and he replied ‘joking obviously’ and we walked off. My friend couldn’t believe what we had heard.

The following Monday, I checked the schools website which confirmed he was still teaching there. I followed the complaints procedure on their website and got a fairly blunt reply which was along the lines of, ‘sorry but as this happened outside of school and at a non school event, we are unable to review your complaint’. I challenged this - said surely it’s of interest to them and again they replied and also said it is outside of the remit for the DfE, and that they’d file any further correspondence from me without responding.

I was furious, as someone like that should not be teaching children in my view. Another friend says they think I can complain straight to Ofsted and they should take it seriously. I’ve also considered writing to my local paper about the schools dismissive response.

My DH thinks I need to drop it and that I’m just stressing myself out by taking it further - he thinks he will just deny the comment and that will be that, but he’ll be suitably embarrassed not to say something like that again.

AIBU to pursue this?

I’m curious OP, what do you think is the appropriate punishment for a man making one creepy comment to you in a bar?

Not sure what you think will be done under sexual harassment legislation. That legislation is all civil. You are protected in certain environments. So if he flirted with you or asked you out in a work place or at the parents evening you would have a case, but you don’t have a case on a night out in a bar. The bar may kick him out for being crass, but unwanted sexual approaches are legally permissible in bars.

You mentioned a colleague being disciplined. There were historic examples of actions that many/most consider excessive now. In 2015 a solicitor made a compliment (fairly clumsily disguised pass) at a barrister on Linkedin and he was fired from his job. He was obviously a creep as he was married and making a pass at other woman. I doubt the same situation would result in him getting fired today as it wouldn’t have 10 years earlier. A number over reactions resulted in the past, it doesn’t mean they will now.

You have contacted the teachers employer, you are now planning on emailing the governors and other steps. I think you need to think really carefully about this. Those who are coming up with more ideas are not helping you. You need to think if your response and effort is proportionate to the event, and would a bench of magistrates think so. A man makes a crass pass at you on a night out and you engage in a course of conduct that looks like you are trying to get him fired. That could result in you getting an anti-harassment order of facing criminal conviction for harassment. This sort of thing can land people with criminal convictions because they can’t leave what was a single unpleasant experience alone.

I think she'll stop at nothing until he gets his balls cut off.

It was Michael Give who abolished it in England in 2012 he is to blame.

Yes exactly . Imagine how a malicious actor could basically destroy your life just with accusations. Not like it hasn't happened. Of course this happened, yes, but people don't seem to understand how prone these sorts of knee jerk reactions are to unintended consequences.

I think she wants to cut the off herself.

The OP does have a witness - her friend

Do you really think a school has the power to start calling in witnesses from a night out in a bar to interview them about someone saying something smutty?

I is not important so I think I will make a non complaint and people will worry , run around me, apologise and take me seriously. There will be meetings about me and my complaint. The Head will give me tea in a china cup and a Rich Tea biscuit. They will ask me if I am satisfied and I will think about that cos I might go to the police and be evn more important!

I will be important. I don't know what it will feel like but I know it is going to make me feel good!

Well, any “unwanted flirting” counts as sexual harassment legally.

Which is why you are only protected in certain circumstances. If someone hits on you at work, you have a course of action. If someone hits on you in a bar you don’t.

The law protects people in circumstances where there is reasonable to expect not to be treated in a way that makes a reasonable person feel uncomfortable. But we cannot sanitise the whole world. We can stop people asking each other out in the work place, but someone can make unpleasant comments or disgusting pick up lines on a night out.

You don't know how this chatting up thing works do you?

I think the best response would have been to tell him to piss off if you were offended. You're trying to get him in trouble with his employers instead. They have, rightly, dismissed your complaint. Let it go. What he said has absolutely nothing to do with how he does his job.

The police wouldn't entertain an odd chat up line from a sleazeball. I wouldn't encourage the op to go down the police route. She'll be wasting her time.

If the student was out of school uniform and on a night out with his mates when it happened, the school would/could do absolutely nothing.

I was thinking the same!

I think I am with the majority here.

He was drunk, in a bar. It wasn't the best chat-up line I have ever heard, and I might have been a bit surprised had it been said to me, but I think (or hope) I would have responded along the lines of "if he tried it, he would find himself extracting the whiteboard rubber from where the sun don't shine"

Running off and complaining to his employer is ridiculous.

I have said some cringeworthy things when drunk. It's one of the reasons I stopped getting drunk in public.

I'm sorry....

You saw someone selling drugs to kids and your first instinct wasn't to call the police to try and stop it, but to phone the school???

I’m of the school of thought that thinks you took it too far reporting him to his school and taking it further.

I wouldn’t embarrass yourself further complaining to the Governors.

That is a mental image I won’t lose for a while! 😂.

MN 2025.

Fucking hell. He made a very clumsy drunken pass. It doesn't mean he's unfit to be around children. Get over yourself.

Governor here. I doubt it!

Ok, lets get this clear. A man comes up to you on a night out. He's drunk, he's a sleazeball, he's a fool. Did he persist? Touch you? Threaten you?
Talk in an inappropriate way about any student?
So the HT will have spoken to him about this complaint. What exactly do you want - his dismissal?

So what exactly would be a positive outcome for you in all of this?

So yes then. If she knows he has a FB she must be! I wouldn’t have a clue if any teachers had FB pages as I don’t look for them

Well that's a load of shite. What are you on about? Schools will only deal with complaints about a student if they were wearing uniform at the time. Otherwise they can get as drunk as they like in their non-uniform, outside school hours (and many do). Out of school the paremts are responsible for their kids.

If I were the head of the school where the teacher works and this was reported to me, I would speak to the teacher privately, keeping things low key, saying 'We've had a complaint about you. The complainant is a former parent. She says you approached her in a bar a few weeks when you were drunk and said you had thought, having met her at parents' evening, that you would like to 'bend her over a desk'. I'm not going to ask you to tell me if this happened, or ask you to comment in any way as I only know what I have told you, do it would be a case of your word against hers. What I am going to do is remind you of our code of conduct for staff and point out that behaviour of this kind reflects poorly on you and on the school. Please go home and think about what I have said, and resolve to do nothing in future that could lead to any similar complaints and me having to speak to you in this way again.'

I would maintain the line with you that school does not investigate complaints about incidents that occur outside school hours. I would do this for two reasons: for consistency with the response you had when you phoned the school, and in order to avoid a lengthy and costly wrangle with the teacher's union, which would take a dim view of a member whose employer, on the basis of an unevidenced complaint, chose to smear that member in writing to a person with no direct link to the school over an incident that happened out of school hours in a public place.

Actually sexual harassment is something that is uninvited and usually 'violates a person's dignity' and I think talking about bending someone over a desk is pretty objectifying and undignified. Flirting is supposed to be respectful.