To be really worried about Reform?

[FiveHorse]

Just that really. They’re predicted to gain the most from the upcoming elections, if this carries on could we see a reform government at the next general elections? Or is it press scaremongering as usual?

No wonder it says “Imagine”. That’s pure fantasy.

At what point have I said a local council will have the power to stop illegal immigration. I would hope they would campaign to refuse housing any in my area, but that's too late already!

I have simply stated I will be voting for Reform because their views align with my own, which is the same reason anyone who votes chooses whatever party they do.

So you didn't actually read the immigration policy. Why have a political debate when you can't be bothered to educate yourself on the matter at hand?

Yes it is pure fantasy under Labour, that's the problem! Action make ideas a reality.

I did read it. It’s fantasy.

Explain. Which part?

'CRITICAL REFORMS NEEDED IN THE FIRST 100 DAYS: Freeze Non-Essential Immigration Strict limits on immigration are the only way to relieve the pressure on our housing, public services, increase wages and protect our culture, identity and values. Essential skills, mainly around healthcare, must be the only exception.

Stop the Boats with our 4 Point Plan Leave the European Convention on Human Rights. Zero illegal immigrants to be resettled in the UK. New Department of Immigration. Pick up illegal migrants out of boats and take them back to France.

Secure Detention for all Illegal Migrants All asylum seekers that arrive illegally from safe countries will be processed rapidly, offshore if necessary. Those entering from a safe country will also be barred from claiming asylum or citizenship. No legal aid for non-citizens. Those rejected will be returned. “Securing our borders to boost your wages and protect public services and British culture and values.”

Immediate Deportation for Foreign Criminals Deport foreign nationals immediately after their prison sentence ends. Withdraw citizenship from immigrants who commit crime with the exception of some misdemeanour offences.

Bar Student Dependents Introduce new visa rules for international students that bar dependents. Only international students with essential skills can remain in the UK. Close down fake courses and immigration schemes that abuse the rules.

Stop Health Tourism and Immediate Access to Benefits We will impose a requirement of 5 years residency and employment to claim any benefits in the UK.

Employer Immigration Tax The National Insurance rate will be raised to 20% for foreign workers. This would incentivise businesses to employ British citizens whose National Insurance rate would stay at 13.8%. Essential foreign health and care workers would be exempt from the tax, as would businesses who employ 5 staff members and under. This would boost wages and could raise more than £20 billion over five years to pay for apprenticeships and training for young Brits.'

The reform 'contract' suggests it can increase police numbers, end nhs waiting lists and reduce tax (for a lot of people). We would all like these outcomes, but frankly it is just not logical to suggest that you can reduce the tax take and simultaneously improve services. It is very difficult to take such proposals as a serious plan for goverment.

You cant reduce tax & improve services. Thrse promises have no economic reality.

Of course you can. We just have to spend money more efficiently and stop wasting so much.

Thanks:

Stop the Boats with our 4 Point Plan
Leave the European Convention on Human Rights.

For what purpose?

Zero illegal immigrants to be resettled in the UK.

As it should be. Anyone staying in the UK illegally, should be deported. We already do that.

New Department of Immigration.

How much will that cost?

Pick up illegal migrants asylum seekers out of boats and take them back to France.

France won't take them back.

Secure Detention for all Illegal Migrants

For how long and how much will that cost?

All asylum seekers that arrive illegally from safe
countries will be processed rapidly, offshore if
necessary.

How much will that cost? Where will they be held?

Those entering from a safe country will
also be barred from claiming asylum or citizenship.

This is illegal but I guess he and his supporters don't care. How much will all the appeals cost?

No legal aid for non-citizens.

They'll get pro bono help.

Those rejected will be returned.

Illegal. It will be challenged. You need agreements with countries to return people and that could take a long time. Where will they be held until they're deported and how much will that cost?

Tbf Labour are showing the stalling impact of higher taxes and falling tax receipts.

That is an open and direct response. I won't be voting reform because my views dont align with the divisive and deeply unpleasant views expressed by party activists and hierachy. We all have to make choices based on our values.

I often look on the Farming Forum for views and it seems a lot of farmers are voting Reform “as a protest vote”.

Why would they do this after Brexit has already sold them down the river plus
Farage is very much in favour of US imported beef and chicken.

'divisive and deeply unpleasant views.'

In your opinion.

I have posted Nigel Farage's statements about women above. Look at what he said about Trump's comments about women for example. I find such comments unpleasant & divisive. You may not. We all have different opinions.

Stop the Boats with our 4 Point Plan Leave the European Convention on Human Rights. Zero illegal immigrants to be resettled in the UK. New Department of Immigration. Pick up illegal migrants out of boats and take them back to France

Leave the European Convention on Human Rights

Within the first 100 days? Fantasy.

Zero illegal immigrants to be resettled in the UK

Illegal immigrants aren't resettled in the UK.

Pick up illegal migrants out of boats and take them back to France

Well, that is an easy win as the people in the boats are not illegal immigrants.

Reform can say what it wants, it will never have the Parliamentary majority it would need for all this.

So you would recreate the ECHR with exactly the same articles but you would exclude a particular group, like refugees crossing in boats?

So you would keep all your rights but take them away from others, refugees for example?

Enough to give up your rights for? Or do you just want to take away rights from a certain group?

Is admiration for Putin unpleasant and divisive? Have you read about the civilians being tortured in prison camps? Russia isn't in the ECHR.

I don’t see why not, the house might be split but Labour plus might not have enough votes.

Re refugee status in pp the rights and responsibilities are already different to citizens.

You asked me what was wrong with the list. I gave you one example. I don't necessarily want to leave the ECHR (and I'm not voting Reform) but there clearly needs to be some changes to its application - if not I am willing to see the question of leaving the ECHR argued in a British court. Brief answer but I have to out.

Re refugee status in pp the rights and responsibilities are already different to citizens

So why do you want to leave the ECHR?

I didn5 say trendy. Pubs and chip shops if you like. You know why the pound shops? Because there’s no money in the area. The EU at least provided some. How close do you live to Ebbw Vale out of interest? I was there yesterday.

You see Reform voters can't address any of this, because the answer is ' We have no idea' .

They are statements that involve absolute zero thought behind them, let alone costing.

Just soundbites for people who have deep seated thoughts about ' illegals' that aren't based in any reality. They have no idea what the process is as it stands either.

The rest of Reforms policies are based in bigotry and general random unpleasantness. Lack of kindness, acceptance and tolerance is generally the theme.

The manifesto for the last election was hilarious. It was like a racist 5 year old had come up with it ..HOWEVER..as the USA have shown, people WILL vote for a party that appeals to their general world view and don't care if they will be any good at running the country .

I fully expect Reform to make massive gains in the locals, and in time merge with the Tories to form the next Government , where Nigel Farage will eventually become Prime Minister.

People ARE that mean and stupid, do not under estimate the General UK public. .

So migrants are ok if they’re going to work in healthcare? How will this ease the burden on housing? Migrants coming to work in the NHS for example would be on work visas and therefore not eligible for access to social housing or welfare benefits.