Not to let random parents drive my child on school trip

[Daisysmummyf]

Over the last year or so DD7’s school has arranged trips to a local activity centre for sports festivals, where a selected group of kids are invited to take part. She was invited to the first one which was 9-11 during a school day, about a 15 min drive away on motorway. They sent the letter home 2 days before and asked if any parents could drive their children there. I was free that day so agreed, and when I got to school I was also giving a lift to another child who I didn’t know which I wasn’t expecting, which was fine. I was however surprised they didn’t ask me for anything like my licence or proof of insurance etc, especially to take someone else’s child.

Since then she’s been invited to multiple of these events, all with 1 or 2 days notice and they have all been cancelled the night before as not enough parents are free to give lifts, including myself . Kids have then been devastated as the teachers tell them they are going before they have even got permissions.

Had another letter home on Friday for a trip tomorrow morning, this one is gymnastics so she’s desperate to go but I’m working and can’t take time off at such short notice. Due to the fact they don’t perform any checks on drives I’ve said on the permission slip she can only go if a teacher drives. I now think she probably won’t end up going and I feel so mean. I have emailed the school to express concerns but had no reply.

YABU: I should trust the random parents to drive her
YANBU: I am right to be cautious / annoyed about short notice

Wow, I'm pretty laid back but I'm shocked that schools allow this and I wouldn't be happy at all.
Ours use buses or the tube for this kind of thing, I guess I'd never considered how it would work in an area without such good public transport.

i don’t think a casual chat and address make them safe but it would definitely help weed out a wrongun.

Tbh I let my kids go off with other parents fairly often for football and stuff. Its very much a I’m taking X to Y after school on Tuesday three extra spots in the car on WhatsApp type arrangement. We carpool for scouts and youth club etc frequently give lifts to an extra few kids too.

I do have a PVG ( Scottish version of advanced disclosure) and business insurance for the car but no one has ever asked about that.

Im wondering where all this fear is coming from. Is the world truly more dangerous than when we were kids? Surely our parents would let us her rides with other parents? I know mine did. Nothing untoward has ever happened to me while I was in the care of friends or classmates parents. Not a teeny tiny thing. But my grandad touched me inappropriately several times and I never ever breathed a word about it. It’s nearly always the family. So where’s this misplaced fear coming from? Are we truly going Towards a Orwellian society where we’re taught fear? Is it the media feeding of negative news and skewing people’s worldview?

I wouldn't want a random parent or any teacher to drive my child unless I knew they were a competent driver. There's also the issue about child safety. Even teachers aren't supposed to be alone with their pupils even though they've had the relevant checks. I'm amazed the school thinks it's ok to allow it.

Even nice people can be terrible drivers.

I can’t believe the school aren’t checking license and insurance details. If one of the parents had an accident they would be screwed! (Both the parent and the school) I certainly wouldn’t want my DC being driven by a parent either.

As an aside with DBS checks being mentioned, if parents are just supporting on a trip they are not needed, however this goes further than just supporting. Realistically the parents should not be alone with children unless supervised by a teacher or qualified member of school staff. Reading my school policy it says that in exceptional circumstances we can drive the children, however we must be insured for class 1 business use (and this should be checked by the schools EVC) and we should have another member of staff in the car as well. No mention of parents driving children as it shouldn’t even be considered.

It's not that teachers aren't meant to be alone with kids, it's that not being alone prevents them from being open to allegations - the advice is very much to protect the adult not the child. I think the school allocating parents to drive is crazy (as opposed to parents organising it amongst themselves) but it's fairly typical for a teacher, with appropriate insurance, to drive a car full of children without an additional adult.

'With appropriate insurance' is the important bit. And yes, I know full well that teachers are protecting themselves when they avoid being alone with a pupil. Which also applies in a car

Our school doesn't do it but some of the local groups did it until recently e.g. scouts/guides. Unfortunately since they stopped the children whose parents don't drive are now unable to attend. Its a real shame that coaches are so expensive that groups are unable to book them.

This absolutely should not be happening, unless the parent giving the lift has a D.B.S. and has their car insurance company notified.
It is a serious safe guarding issue.

The school are also required to ensure the parents have DBS certificates.

That’s not my fear. Mine is around people being lackadaisical about seatbelts or my kids being in a car if someone who smokes or vapes. If my daughter has an asthma attack would that random parent know what to do?

Whether people find it crosses a boundary or not or if they know the parents so feel safer, it’s all irrelevant- safeguarding legislation in schools state this shouldn’t happen unless the parent volunteer has a current up to date DBS check and relevant car insurance. This is the reason we have serious case reviews where significant issues happen and legislation has to be reviewed and updated. It might seem overbearing or dramatic to some to not allow it but it’s safeguarding, and it shouldn’t be happening in schools. It’s a slippery slope. These rules are in place to protect children and 99% of the time they would probably be fine, but these laws are in place to protect the children effected by that 1% and the legislation has to be adhered too. I’d question if the school would do this during an ofsted inspection, and if not, then they shouldn’t be doing it any other time.

with all due respect, your thinking is so permeated by the idea that only authorities can be trusted that you can’t see clearly. In few other countries apart from the US are things around kids so regulated and has so much red tape. Kids in the UK are treated as if made of glass and parents incapable of thinking for themselves. Maybe this is what creates all this distrust between people - if you’re taught that only authorities and rules can keep you safe of course you’ll feel distrustful of others. Before Ofsted existed for example things weren’t so crazy

I may be missing the point but how does that work with car seats? It the kids are 7 most of them should still be in car seats of sorts.
In terms of driving - not sure i would be that worried. I would allow my kids friends parents to drive them much further afield and i wouldn't occur to me to ask for their driving licence. Not sure what good that would do. Drove around a bunch of my kids mates the other day for his birthday. They are 8. My only issue was car seats. The parents don't know me per se and nobody asked for my driving licence etc...🙄

Parents drop boosters or seats to school office and I carry them all back to my car!! It's a palaver!

Surely, if they are doing this for the school or on behalf of the school then a DBS check has been invoked?

fairly common in my school. Too small to have the budgets for mini buses for every little event that they go to
The school doesn’t organise directly though. It says there is a gymnastics event on for those that are interested but you need to organise your own way there if joker going . Then the parents what’s ap group puts up a list of kids who want to go and parents who can drive and tries to make sure that everyone has a lift who wants one .

if it’s all class thing , they would organise a bus though.

works well and most parents try to do one event a year so it doesn’t feel like a big deal .
As a result they end up taking part in events they never otherwise would have been able to

I think there may be insurance issues. I’d be inclined to say no.

I think what some schools for this sort of situation is to say that the child has been invited but the parents are responsible for getting them there. Then the onus is on the parents to organise lifts with other parents they trust. If a parent is struggling with that, the school could possibly offer to pass their number on to other parents who are going, whilst staying out of making any arrangements.
I've certainly done a school trip where the parent-taxis collected the kids from school at noon, and delivered them to the venue. That was older kids, though, where they did the lift-negotiation themselves.

I think the school is on very dodgy grounds if they are putting children in parents' cars without doing DBS/licence/insurance checks.

For anyone who thinks that such checks are overkill, a teaching colleague of mine was completely unaware that her car needed an MOT annually after three years, until doing the paperwork to be allowed to drive children in it.

Incidentally, I bet nobody ever checks whether their mum-friends have a licence and insurance - I suspect everyone goes on "they're nice middle-class people".

PVG are currently trying to crack down on this because parents helping on one off occasions who are always with a teacher / member of school staff don't legally need a PvG check.

The original "check everyone who ever comes into contact with a child" is being rolled back toward what it was originally intended to be, but it's going to be very difficult for them to shut that door as the horse bolted long ago!

It is wrong on so many counts, license, insurance, DBS checks , risk assessments !!!
I would contact ofsted as it is a safeguarding issue

You just need to make a query to the safeguarding team. I had this happen but I was the driver and then spoke to the school saying, I think in future you should ask for driver info and insurance, as I am disqualified for drink driving and have no insurance. Of course that wasn't true but the office team, laughed and said we will get on to it. No more requests came out. I heard on the grapevine, legal advice was don't do it. Shame for the kids but at least in their boredom they are safe.