To discuss the societal impacts of older parents?

[Kindersurprising]

I feel like this is a really under-discussed area, particularly as it’s now really extremely common (particularly in middle class circles) to have a first baby after 30 and in many cases 35+.

I feel like in 20 years we are going to see quite a big impact, in adults having fewer (if any) siblings due to parental age, caring for elderly parents while having small children themselves, a lack of grandparent support and I guess a smaller family circle much earlier on. I only realised today that it will be vanishingly rare for kids to have great grandparents soon - my DC have only one, through me.

The positives are often cited as more money, and more life experience.

I was 30 when DC2 was born, so somewhere in the middle and not a young parent as such. I often wonder what it would be like to have had them earlier.

How do you think this will play out in the next 20-50 years?

I agree. There is an insensitivity and “othering” about the whole thread, frankly. My MIL was 21 when she had my husband, her second child. She is a cold, selfish woman who largely ignored her kids and similarly has zilch interest in her grandkids. I was 41 and 43 when I had my two sons (not “late” by choice, believe me) and I spend a lot of time with them - consequently their relationship with me ans with each other is genuinely close. As for the “societal impact” frankly look to government cuts over decades which means there is very little help to elderlies living independently, and ferociously expensive old people’s homes.

You must be quite a bit older than me. I was born in 1981 to parents who were 27 and 30, I had 2 great grandfathers and one great grandmother alive at the time. The last one died in 1990 (born in 1903) so I remember him quite well.

My oldest DC was born in 2003 and had 1 great grandfather and 2 great grandmothers at the time of her birth. One great grandmother only met her once before dying the same year, but the other one and the great grandfather lived until she was in her teens.

Mind you my dad's side of the family are very long lived. Most of them make it to mid-late 90s and I had 2 great uncles who made 100.

My thread isn’t about advantages to individuals, it’s about the effect on society in the future. Do you remember the ‘what will happen when boomers die?’ thread? There were loads of interesting points made on there - from the predictable ‘the property market will ease up’ to the more interesting ‘who will take on voluntary work at National Trust properties/charities’ etc

This was supposed to be the equivalent of that thread - not so people can gnash their teeth about their individual circumstances, but to discuss longer term impacts in more interesting ways.

Tbh I won’t reply to you again as you seem really het up

That’s one of the reasons why I do weightlifting and stay active, so that my kids won’t have caring burdens for me for too long, I hope.

Meanwhile, I help out where I can now. Look after their cat when they need to go away, pop into the house to check stuff etc. Yesterday, I helped DD with errands related to moving in with her boyfriend whom she has dated for 3 years, I imagine the same when one day they have kids. I work but do have one day off.

Also, I think in 10 years, you are going to have caring functions increasingly automated with computer tech and robots. We already have robot vacuums and it’s going to increase from there.

@Labyrinthian

I do think we’ve heard from those with older my parents.

My parents are 40 and 45 years older than me. For me the worst part of an older parent is that you’re less likely to have as long with them, my own mother passed away while I was in my mid 20s.

I only knew one grandparent - my grandmother who lived to almost 100, she died not that long before my mother. The other three I never knew. My great grandparents would have died in the 1950s and some earlier than that, many decades before I arrived in the 1990s.

I don’t think there were many other downsides to older parents - as a child my parents were not that much older than some of my friends parents as we were in an affluent area and my parents were also wealthy so it just wasn’t that uncommon, especially for fathers to be older. My mother poured so much love and attention into me I don’t think I missed out by not having a younger more energetic mother, I was cherished as it took my parents a huge amount of effort for me to be born at all.

I chose to start a family in my late twenties, but I plan to finish having children later in life, if I’m successful using our frozen embryos and life goes according to “plan”. I do think my daughter will benefit in some ways being the eldest born to young parents, but also I hope that if I do have a final child in a decade or so that they will benefit from more experienced parents and having older siblings.

I can see how only having one grandparent alive for her children could be a key factor for her.

My mum had me at 30 & 3 of my gps were dead before I was born/before I turned 1. My dc have 3 gps. Life is unpredictable

And this is where the op, as is usual on these threads, has goaded older parents into defending themselves by saying something reactionary about younger parents that they don't even really think until they were provoked into saying it. This has then goaded a younger parent into defending their life choices and so the whole thing will escalate.

All because of the goady op.

You can’t, I married at 25, had sons at 26, and 29, one chooses to be estranged, high functioning Asperger’s younger son, my elder son, 1 grandson, my dil chooses to almost ignore me completely, minus odd rare text and my ex husband. ( yes I left my sons at 11 and 8, due to my ex refusing to leave me, judge me as you will).
My dil has had cancer twice, grandson 2, unfortunate, now well.
i have mid stage Parkinson’s at nearly 63, I can’t physically do what I used to, I get support, and I believe in right to die when it becomes too much.
I won’t get the support and help from them, I have 3 brothers, 2 older , 1 younger, 2 abroad.
Nor do I expect it

Historically couples had children younger due to lack of reliable /available contraception, and society pressurised unmarried couples to marry, and those that were married started having children young for the same reasons. Grandparents were not necessarily around as people didn't live as long, now with arguably better living standards,diet and health care ppl are living longer.
People are more mobile geographically speaking and moved around more for jobs and therefore relatives can be scattered around the country, even if everyone lived comparatively local to each other the government is expecting someone who is sixty now to be in work until 67, not much time to help GC.
Times change, and ppl adapt.

These threads niggle me. I had three children in my 40’s. I know many women who had their first child in their late 30’s and more children in their 40’s. I don’t know anyone who planned to leave having children until their 40’s. However I know many women who wasted years in long term relationships waiting for men to be ‘ready’ to start a family. Perhaps men should be told to hurry up!

Every time I see one of these threads I reflect on when would have been ‘right’ from your perspective to have a child

• early / mid 20s - single and living with my parents earning very little
• late 20s in a very on off relationship and renting a small two bedroom flat with a friend
• early 30s bought house with boyfriend, climbing the career ladder and he was away with work 6 months of the year
• mid 30s - pandemic, got married, started trying, had miscarriages for the next two years until we had a baby in our late 30s.

the baby has all their grandparents, we live in a good sized house in London in a good area and can afford to provide for our child without compromising.

This is what I was wondering. Go back in time to have another go? Kill ourselves and remove the problem from the world? Or maybe just feel ashamed while people feel superior and tut-tut about those hateful older mothers?

Do you remember the ‘what will happen when boomers die?’ thread? There were loads of interesting points made on there - from the predictable ‘the property market will ease up’ to the more interesting ‘who will take on voluntary work at National Trust properties/charities’ etc

This was supposed to be the equivalent of that thread - not so people can gnash their teeth about their individual circumstances, but to discuss longer term impacts in more interesting ways.

I'm confused by your points because the implications you mention in your OP aren't new and the consequences of an ageing population.

This is true. I am not sure the big impact in terms of elderly care is in older parents though. It is fewer children full stop, less extended family on the doorstep for most people, and most critically of all, many families where both the women and men have paid jobs outside the home and therefore can't be on hand to provide care. This is all a huge societal shift that older first time parents are only a small part of. All the media coverage about problems in the care sector for the elderly conveniently fail to mention that we have never as a society before farmed out care of our elderly in huge numbers, we used to care for them within homes and families, and now that's difficult because everyone is expected to have paid employment

I have a job by the way, and I'm not harking back to all women should be at home, constantly pregnant and caring for elderly relatives, it's just an observation.

ARE YOU BEING DENSE KEEP SAYING THAT!

There's loads and loads of threads discussing older parents on Mumsnet, in just the last year.

Do a search if you're still struggling 🙄

Here’s a few things I’ve thought of to try to get the thread back on track..

1. Earlier inheritance. Maybe that will ease the home buying pressure somewhat?
2. Fewer siblings eventually meaning fewer aunts, cousins and uncles. The family pyramid will shrink and many families will solely consist of grandparents, parents and 1 or 2 children.
3. I think therefore people may try to find a wider ‘family’ in different ways - Church, other religious movements, living in communes??
4. A society that possibly looks a bit more like China - only children, big emphasis on achievement in education etc

"The number of women aged 45 and over giving birth is at the highest level since records began 80 years ago, figures show."
"The number of live births in this age group rose from 1,619 a decade ago to 2,366 in 2018. In 1938, when records began, there were 2,085 births to women over 45"

It's not new or a huge amount

Don’t be so ridiculous.

Yes, sandwich generation and all that, but having a child at 18 and then what, you are 70 and looking after your mum who is 88? That is not fun either, physically, I mean.

You really have a beef with older parents don't you?

Have you thought about why?

Yes, but big families looked after each other through the generations. The issue now is people choosing to have their first child in their 40s when their own parents are either very old or deceased then maybe having only one child. There's a greater likelihood of that child having additional needs, their parents being older means they can only care for them for a limited period and consequently the child cannot care for the parents in old age.

Ten years of conservative government made sure that only the very well off could afford to marry early, have kids early, because society was saying you need a house and x income but there has been wage stagnation and house prices and rents have gone through the roof. (Excuse the pun) I’d have much rather had children earlier but couldn’t afford to get married. When I was a teenager my Gran stopped everyone in the middle of Christmas dinner to tell me the greatest gift I could give my husband on my wedding night was my virginity. 🤨 So for the long admonished millennials there has been a major mismatch between what our elders said we should be doing in our lives and jobs and what was available and achievable.

If society is going to turn around now and say ‘why are you all having too few children too late in life’ well frankly go swivel.

Abolish the two child cap for one.

So what do you suggest, oh wise one? Bring on the interesting and focused discussion you're asking others to provide, and the ways we can 'prepare' for the impacts.

You mean posters saying things you don't want to acknowledge?

OP, you have now finally lost me with ‘living in communes’ listed as a potential consequence of women having their first child at age 35 😆