To discuss the societal impacts of older parents?

[Kindersurprising]

I feel like this is a really under-discussed area, particularly as it’s now really extremely common (particularly in middle class circles) to have a first baby after 30 and in many cases 35+.

I feel like in 20 years we are going to see quite a big impact, in adults having fewer (if any) siblings due to parental age, caring for elderly parents while having small children themselves, a lack of grandparent support and I guess a smaller family circle much earlier on. I only realised today that it will be vanishingly rare for kids to have great grandparents soon - my DC have only one, through me.

The positives are often cited as more money, and more life experience.

I was 30 when DC2 was born, so somewhere in the middle and not a young parent as such. I often wonder what it would be like to have had them earlier.

How do you think this will play out in the next 20-50 years?

There’s actually a scheme called care2learn that pays for childcare if you start a course before you’re 20. It’s much more of an issue to pay for childcare while studying when you’re older.

Having a child obviously has an impact at any stage of your career. For me I just built my career up more slowly after having a child but that suited our situation and I was still able to progress and work more as he got older. Having another child in my 40s is then more about maintaining the level I’m at but reducing hours. I wouldn’t say either is ‘better’.

Shock horror, I am one of these geriatric parents that will have a terrible impact on society!!! What a shame recurrent miscarriages meant it took me to age 37 to have a baby, eh? I should have given up after I turned 35!

My mum had me at 27 - I didn’t have any great grandparents, in fact I only had 3 grandparents. My DS also has 3 grandparents despite the 10 year age difference between when my mum and I had our children. Like I did, he has a very close relationship with one set of grandparents that are not yet in their 70s. I most certainly won’t be expecting him to care for me when I’m elderly nor would I want him to, bit bizarre to assume all parents would want & expect this.

The “societal impact” you describe makes massive sweeping assumptions about what individual parents expect from their children, their family dynamics and indeed their own childhoods.

Agree it's having fewer children overall that's making the difference. Not what age you have those children - they'll be adults by the time you are elderly, even if you have a kid at 45. Also, people are just living longer. These two things mean our population is skewing older, same as across all the countries that got rich from the first wave of industrialization. As time goes on we will have gradually proportionally fewer adults who are fit and able to be economically active, and we will have to devote more resources to their care needs - whether by family or by state, it will mean a portion of the working population will have to do this. Otherwise we will become a society that neglects its elders.

I thought it was pretty well known that many countries are pretty much destined for population collapse at this point? Not enough young people paying tax to support our healthcare and pension systems as they are, just to start with, and a whole host of other economic and social implications. Our cultures will change dramatically, and Governments don’t have the faintest idea what to do about it 🤷‍♀️

Edit: it’s nearly 2am, I’m only semi-conscious, it may be you’re talking about something else entirely 🤔

I know what you mean OP. I seem to always hear about the positives of having babies in your 40s these days. However everyone that I know in real life would prefer to have their children younger but delay it because finding the right man takes longer and there is so much you can do as a single/independent person now - plus having a career and loving life before having kids is invaluable.

I had my first in my late teens, 2nd in my 30s. My mum was obviously much younger (mid 40s) when I had my first and helped out so much - we had a large extended family. My mum wasn’t old when I had my 2nd, she was in her late 50s but actually had lots of health issues that has meant that we (as her children) are also taking care of her.

Although my parents arnt old at all - some of the things I’ve noticed is

Younger grandparents being more involved and acting as second parents. My mum was in her mid 40s when she became a grandma - I have some friends that also had children young with young parents, and yes - the parents work, but have been pretty hands on when needed (so my first is super close to my mum as it’s like she raised her). Whereas with my second, my mum isn’t old - she’s in her mid 50s but has much more of a “typical” grandparent relationship - she doesn’t have as much energy (although she is up and about etc - just maybe she’s done with the baby phase?) and she’s had some health stuff so actually can’t be as full on as I can tell she wants to be.

Secondly, I know families juggling parents in their 70s/80s alongside school aged children and that looks stressful! Very expensive. A friend of mine was ranting because they are juggling the fees of an elderly parent in their 80s with fees of raising 3 children spanning from the ages of 5 and 16! Things like paying for clubs, tutors etc.

I agree with another PP who has had children young at different times of their lives. Whilst my youngest is amazing! She had community and family and a version of me that is probably inspiring (in terms of seeing work ethic - but I was always there evenings and weekends) a whereas my youngest gets stability and a version of me that is more established - but maybe less family - and sadly grandparents arnt as active.

I don’t actually think one is better than the other. Just different.

My grandparents were 36 and 32 when they had my mum (they had 8 in total) My parents were mid 30s when they had my db and I
My dhs parents were 40 and 35 when they had my dh ( only child)
I was 33 and 37 when I had our three

3 of my grandparents were dead before I was born and the other lived in Ireland so no one helped my parents with childcare

My children knew their grandparents but they didn’t help with regular childcare due to working ( my mum), not driving ( my dad ), not interested ( MIL ) or deceased ( FIL ). We didn’t live that near my parents either.

3 of Our parents all became unwell when our children were young. They all passed away within 1year when our kids were ages 9 - 13.

For us your predicted future is very much one we experienced as a family for many generations. The only difference now compared to when my Grandparents was bringing up their kids is that our later generations moved away for work which obviously impacts both older generations ability to offer family support and family to offer them support.

Deleted as tagged wrong person

I think you miss the point, in this type of family there are just more people so great gran is 88, gran is 70 but nana is 52, Mum is 34 and her children are teenagers. The care of the 88 year old and any small children is split between 4 generations aged between 16 & 70.

Why is there an expectation that the 88 yr old or anyone else will want to be cared for by family members.

Plus
Where are all the men. Are they caring for the men or ?…

Me too and I know loads of others, one colleague has 6 children aged 24-14 she has just been appointed deputy medical director of a large foundation trust. I think she is about 52.

Definitely an interesting topic.
I had DS at age 44. DH was 53.

My mum had us in her early 20s.
Married young & was a housewife.

Nowadays, both parents at work.
Bigger generation gaps, as well…

I read posts here constantly about grandparents being distant and unwilling to help with grandkids even occasionally, despite being youngish and having reasonable health and finances.
Similarly, there are numerous posts about atrociously badly behaved siblings, or adults who ghost families abruptly and cause deep pain.
And post after post about men leaving women with babies, not contributing financially, barely seeing their children, but almost immediately impregnating another woman. And so on. I don’t think that the potential ills of society come down to people becoming parents at older ages, or having an only child. Yes, there are health concerns and conditions we know about much more today, but there are multiple factors that need to be analysed in an assertion such as yours.

My grandma gave birth to my mother aged 42. She had 4 kids. My mum was the youngest. My mum had me when she was 37. She had 2 kids. I had my 2 kids aged 37 and 40. I am trying not to be offended by your post but you genuinely seem to be stretching to find problems with older parents. My mum ended up sole carer for her parents because her siblings moved away. She died young from cancer, two of her older siblings are still alive, the eldest died in his 80s. My children have 3 great grandparents on their father's side. It is not a positive relationship. There is limited/no real interaction. They cannot pick them up or hold them, they are too old and weak. My 5 year old forgets about them and doesn't enjoy visiting. They need care from their children- paternal grandparents. They had my husband in their mid 20s. They now have grandchildren they want to see but who all live on different continents and very elderly parents they need to look after. This is despite having lots of siblings. More children also means more drama. And if we're going to be cynical, also less inheritance per child and more need to help out the lost causes. My paternal grandparents both had double digit number of siblings. My grandfather spent his adult life bailing most of them out. Looking after my father's cousins (I mean moving in for years) only to be left without any thanks. My dad is now in his 80s. His parents had him when they were early 30s. He's a single child. Because he was a single child his parents could afford a better life for him and he was not pulled out of school and sent down the pits aged 13 like many of his cousins. Still grew up in what would be considered extreme poverty by today's standards but they were able to get him through education and he went onto get a PhD. Wouldn't have happened if they'd had 10+ kids like their parents. He was born in 1945 as was my mum. I don't think older parents or single children is the new phenomenon you see it as. I also don't think it's necessarily a bed of roses to have a large family or to have ailing great grandparents. Some people die young, very young, others live full lives into their 80s. No one knows in advance what their fate is going to be. There is possibility a correlation between older parents and children with genetic conditions but if you look at the rate of removal from parents due to drug, alcohol, abuse etc into the foster / adoption system then I think you are going to find the majority are not born to older parents. Older parents are also regularly criticised on this forum. I don't care though because I really believe that my decisions around having babies is no one else's business. And I also can afford to pay for my own children and don't get things like child benefit or UC. Don't judge me for being an older parent and I won't judge you for bringing up your child on the taxes I pay to subsidise your life choices.

If you look at the rate of removal from parents due to drug, alcohol, abuse etc into the foster / adoption system then I think you are going to find the majority are not born to older parents.

I work with these families, honestly many women with this type of life have 5 or more children by multiple men, the forst is often at 18 or 20 ( parodoxically they often keep the first one or 2 for a bit, or they go to grandparents) but the last might be around 42- these are usually the children removed at birth and adopted. Then the adoptive parents ( often older themselves) wonder why the child is ND and struggle at adolesence. The longer I do this work the sadder it makes me. But no young or old parenthood isn't especially a thing in these situations.

I've had babies at 20, 23 and 32. I was a lot harder at 32 than the first 2 pregnancies and I was fit and healthy Wasn't even a " difficult" pregnancy but still felt it more

I'm glad to hear care2learn is still going. Thought that might've been dropped by now

I think this wins best comment! Completely unrelated, hysterical, bizarre and what the hell does Nigel Farage have to do with it? 😆

Tbh the housing ladder hasn't worked for all 3 generations of DH's family. Dh's grandpa bought his 3 bed house at 26 in 1957 as a garment worker with a council mortgage, suspect he lied about income as he didn't know where next paycheck was coming from. He died in that house. MIL and FIL bought a tiny 1 bed flat (bedroom was 2.4 by 2.4 m and it was a maisonette) which fell from 70k to 40k, they only bought the next house cos family gave them money. We bought our 2 bed flat in our 20s, still there in our 30s and unlikely to move to anything bigger than a flat. Our flat does offer us stability in the sense that our mortgage was 1k for 5 years and 1282 now which is handy for mat leave and dh's health expenses (700 quid on prescription, and his employer has already covered 30k on medical bills).

But we don't expect to move up esp with our anticipated health costs and if ds has similar health issues. I was ttc since my 20s though and am now 32 so not a very old mum, unfortunately dh's problems are inherited.

Whether parents get help from GPs is going to depend at least partly on whether they live anywhere near. Many families are now scattered.

I had one GGF until I was 14, but that was ages ago now. Both GFs died in their 60s - both GMs lived well into their 80s. Neither set lived near, so DPs never had help from them.

No it isn't Teen mothers often come from families where education isn't priority ( the girls who come from. " Better" families are more likely to have abortions) and less likely to be highly educated even without the baby

This was a response to previous poster suggesting a 70 yo would be caring for a 88yo. Personally I don't know anyone who doesn't provide some support for parents in their late 80's/90's even if it's just company, house hold maintenance. This does include both DH (50) and DS (21) who do things such as change light bulbs, climb into the loft/ onto the roof to investigate leaks, get various things down and file a tax return for MIL (80).

Traditionally it would actually fall to the unmarried daughter/s. Failing that one of the married daughters would be expected to bring her parents into her home so she could care for them alongside having/bringing up children.

Don’t forget that the life expectancy was lower so people became ‘elderly’ at a younger age.

I remember visiting my paternal grandparents and they’d always be sat in twin armchairs with blankets over their laps. Mum or dad would make them a cup of tea and I’d have to sit there on my best behaviour whilst they talked. I worked out recently they were early sixties at this point 😳

This. It's absolutely a financial issue.
Where we are the younger parents are all those who've started having dc late teens/early-mid 20s and continued and are fully dependent on state benefits.
The 'older' parents you talk about are the ones who've had to work and save to get in a position to afford mat leave and children as they are entitled to nothing from the state, expect possibly the paltry child benefit, and increased tax on their salary, and also paying eye watering child care fees!!

It's much harder to get on the housing ladder post dc as it affects your borrowing power & there is less social housing now.

YABU because usually the discussion devolves into "selfish women" and selfish women wanting to have careers."

So YABU to discuss this unless you look at the decisions a lot of young men make not to settle down, and not to develop theseles so they are good partner & father material.

Many women want to have DC at the time that is healthiest - in their 20s. BUt young men are rarely thinking about this and there is a dearth of suitable men as fathers and life partners.

And it's not a new discussion. Back in the midde of the 19th century there were lots of public discussions (again, women-blaming) about the "surplus" women who weren't getting married & having children. Again, no mention of the "useless" men who were not marrying and parenting ...