To think why are there so many unattractive, dysfunctional men ?

[ursulone]

Firstly I am not perfect and certainly don't expect anyone else to be. I am well aware there are women who fall into all the categories I am about to mention. I am in middle age and happily single (divorced). When I did briefly date, I met a variety of men, most of whom certainly had issues. I recently attended a housewarming party in a city around 2 hours from where I live. Women were all personable, made a big effort with appearance, sociable, variety of interests, Most of the men, certainly the straight seeming ones, were badly dressed, no effort, bad skin, some BO/bad breath, talked only about themselves, didn't seem interested in anything much. One or two seemed to have quite challenging financial circumstances, not sure why. Thing is, if being a single man is quite as bleak an experience as one male friend said it was (mainly according to him, as men are too competitive with one another to be as supportive friends as women are to each other, and men in relationships don't hand around with single men) why don't they make an effort? Obviously its not like it is compulsory to be be the best version of yourself but some of there guys come across like they've just given up.

Northern European policemen are gorgeous!

Just as an aside :-)

I think there's some overlap amd some difference here. You may have grown up in Ireland whereas I moved here in ny 40s. I've found in many ways there is quite a lot of respect shown at an individual level to women in Ireland, maybe another legacy of the legendary matriarchal dynamic. But yes, there's also the patriarchal Catholic inheritance. It's almost a bit like southern Italy/North Africa, with women being both venerated and to an extent marginalised, while the women absolutely run rings around the men. I don't know much about the porn stuff but there's tons of long term bachelors seemingly terrified of women in the Irish countryside. They go out for dinner as they can't cook, live in ramshackle houses, seem very shy

Honestly with regards to UK middle aged below par men, if all they can be bothered to do is go to the pub after work, go home, heat a ready meal, wank off to porn and do the same thing over and over then just leave them to it.

You get one wonderful life, if they want to circle the drain being pissed off that some poor sod female can't be persuaded to look after them for a life of contempt, then that's their look out.

On their death beds are they really going to look back and think, wish I'd spent more thing watching porn?

Who really cares, what they think, why they don't bother, as long as they don't try and engage with you when you are out or at least don't get the message when you tell them to fuck off just let them, if they are not bothering to look decent, or even wash, and mansplain, or talk about women as something inferior, then at least you know.

Are you suggesting that men giving a shit about watching their kids play sport is somehow only the domain of the mother? It is that kind of thinking that is why so many boys lack male role models; Dad's that are too self obsessed to do anything without their partner planning it, prepping a lunch and giving them GPS to the exact spot to have "bonding time", probably with a written list of things they really should be talking to their son about... I despair sometimes.

I heard this view too, can't recall where I read it but some men are lost in their 'Porn Self' and really do think they can shuffle into somewhere like a shop or bar, gut hanging over their trousers and unkempt (I'm thinking age 55+ here like my ExH) and some gorgeous creature 20 years younger will start coming on to them overwhelmed at their sheer gorgeousness.

I've only met 1 in my age group (55-65) who hasn't got a big belly (and he's Mediterranean and now my long distance lover) but when I dabbled with OLD all wanted 'slim, attractive, solvent' women yet none seemed to offer the same back 🙄.

I presume men mocking women’s fat stomachs, or bingo wings, or similar is ok too?

yeah of course, they do! they quite happily say it out loud to people in pubs but get the hump if you point out they are not really Adonis themselves!

I know they do it, I’m just surprised you think it’s fine

There are other forums, I mean mumsnet, the clue is in the name, is probably not the most receptive audience if you are male and want to whinge about how there aren't many 50s Nicole Kidman's in your neighbourhood to take out on a date.

But there are websites to have a whinge about the physical state of women of a certain age. I mean the men will obviously have to seek them out themselves, which might cause a problem, unless you can ask your mum to find them for you, or sister? Or some other female whom you think should serve your needs.

I think the most unattractive and dysfunction men are the ones that pretend to be women. But in general, I agree op.

Well it really doesn't bother me, it doesn't make them really shine as an example of gentlemanness, or even of any great standard of intelligence. Sometimes it's just better to know how they think as early as you can so you can give them a wide berth from the start.

When you are middle aged, the gymnastic passion days are past, you need a bit more in a partner, like a bit of intelligent conversation for one thing, so it's best to know what level of conversing you are dealing with.

It doesn't happen to me, I am just an observer, as is my H. But we do see it from time to time, one of our locals is full of these types, we don't go there, occasionally, once every two years, I have reason to go in, and the same table is still there, scowling, they are there every time you drive past.

And you get trapped in a conversation where inevitably you get the attitude, that everything is an opinion and their opinion is just as valid as anyone else's about everything. Which just never applies. But there we go.

I guarantee 💯 that if the Father's had planned "it", there would uproar from the Mothers about how unsuitable their plans were. Because yet again, you have proven my point about expecting men to think like women.

What do you think the response would be from the other Mothers if a few men suggested taking the kids somewhere themselves?

There would be cries of sexual predators, that they can't be trusted, their idiots, and so on.

You know I'm right.

Agreed. People say all the good men are taken and I'd argue that a lot of the bad men are taken too. There were never enough good men and women's standard's being what they are most of them aint that great anyway.

I actually actively encouraged my dh to spend time with his dcs.
Because i could see he wasn’t developing any link/relationship with them. And clearly that was something that was good fir all of them.

I dint know of any mother of who react the way you describe.
A random man? Yes. The father if one if the kids? Why would it be an issue?

I think there is a caricature of women living freely in your head. One that tells you you’re oppressed, women don’t let you do anything and it’s all their fault 🙄🙄

fewer

An absolutely fascinating post. I recognise most of what has been said.
Im a 56 M and I know I stink, so before I leave the house I shower. I look crap in t-shirts, so I wear polos or shirts - always clean. Try to keep a tidy house and get out to see some culture occasionally. I also have pals both single and married who always look like a bag-o-shite when they leave the house, but I can’t think of a single female who doesnt look after themselves.

Agree. The lowest of the lowest of the low men nevertheless seem always (at least in 20s/30s) seem to find some woman willing to sleep with them, provide domestic service, often support them financially and pop out their kids. ZERO standards.

If men had to up their game a bit, if women weren't so bloody afraid of being single (and childfree), these losers might put a little effort in. But realistically why should they?

And then look at all of these mothers coddling and being servants to their young sons and teenage sons, making them think they are the center of the universe and setting up the expecatation that women are there to serve. I see it time and again in real life and it's so fucking tiresome. Some women I know actually seem like they are in love with their male progeny; no matter what slackers and users these boys are, they are treated as though the sun shines out of them.

Why on earth would any parent be worried about the other taking the kids out for a day? Unless they have previous cause to be worried, of course.
I know you think you are right, which is very worrying in itself and again shows why men aren't stepping up to be role models for their sons, an excuse has been made for their behaviour (or lack of it).

But the OP's point is that the single women are making the effort with the makeup and the shape wear, but the men are not. How much effort does it really take to iron a shirt, wear a clean pair of trews, shower and shave before a gathering, and brush your teeth every day? They don't even have to bother with make up or do anything about a muffin gut.

Omg yes this!!!

Hence all the British men falling over themselves to MAGA while also having an epidemic of mental health issues, loneliness and involuntary celibacy

What a silly comment. Do you really move in circles where a man suggesting to his partner that he took the children out with a group of other dad's and kids, would be met by the woman accusing him of being a sexual predator? Honestly, if you have to hide behind fear of accusations of peadophilia as a reason not to look after your own children, you're really scraping the barrel for excuses. We all know men are not women. We're not asking them to be. Being better men would do fine.

But it seems that the unattractive unappealing men seem to think they are worthy of the attentions of women who look after themselves simply by virtue of being a man. Most women who are less than attractive don’t assume men are all going to fall for her

Equivalent of bold man is flat with no boobs woman.

Yes my error

Maybe they just need to get into self-care and therapy. Agree with PP that the good ones are taken by a certain age. The majority back on the market are there for good reason