Discussion about Jesus’s death which now encompasses creationism and the second coming. Thread 2

[ZoggyStirdust]

Continues from here if anyone wants to

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5318577-to-not-understand-why-christians-think-jesus-died-for-our-sins?page=40&reply=143772264

Taking those who are ready for Heaven out of the impending Tribulation sounds very loving to me.

God is a loving God. Love demands justice. How well do you know the Bible? God's love, justice, reward and punishment won't make sense unless we consider them in context.

The site linked here may help:

https://biblehub.com/q/why_does_a_loving_god_allow_hell.htm

Note that God always tells people what He requires, helps them to achieve it, and warns them of punishment and danger so that they can avoid it.

When everybody has heard about Jesus, going through the Tribulation and/or going to Hell is a consequence of their own choices.

What are the signs to watch for?

One species can evolve into another ....did't birds come from dinosaurs. Lizards with feathers found etc.
I find there is more concrete evidence for evolution than creationalism however uncomfortable that is.

You’re getting into the realms of silliness now if you believe this science fiction nonsense. People are supposed to just accept that their mother, father, son, daughter have just vanished into thin air but it’s ok ‘because god done it’. If this is the sort of garbage people are being fed and believe then I’m very glad to not be a part of it. Unless of course you are on a wind up and know perfectly well it’s rubbish lol.

Watching for the signs was referring to the destruction of Jerusalem not the second coming. I don't believe in the rapture, I know some Christians do.

@KeepHopeful I too believe in the Rapture and yes it is refered to in the Bible although the Greek word 'harpazo' (meaning 'to snatch' 'take by force' 'to seize') is used. You did miss out the dead rising before the living however, and it will all happen 'in the twinkling of an eye' so not over hours or days, it will be an instant thing.

There will be no signs before the Rapture happens. The Tribulation may not happen immediately afterwards but if you imagine all the people who just vanish that would cause some chaos on Earth so it may propel events towards the Tribulation. The Tribulation doesn't begin until the AntiChrist signs a 7 year peace covenant with Israel. That then signals the start of the 7 years and all sorts of truly awful events no-one would want to have to go through but many will. The Rapture will likely be explained by those remaining in some other way, such as aliens taking those people or something ridiculous. By then people will believe just about anything, many already do!

Certainly not all Christians believe in this, although they do believe in the Second Coming of Christ (which ends the Tribulation after 7 years have passed), but again some Christians believe we already live in the Tribulation and others believe it already happened a long time ago and we are living in the Millennial Kingdom, although that view makes no sense to me.

Saw this thread encompasses the Second Coming so wanted to pop on and say I once had a dream about the Second Coming and it happened in Sweden.

Looking forward to finding out if I'm a prophet.

It’s rubbish - I know that but am fascinated that people believe it. It’s the sort of stuff for a good Hollywood film set.

@KeepHopeful The god you describe doesn't sound very loving at all. He sounds cruel and malevolent. Will all the young Muslim/sikh/Buddhist/atheist ect. children be left behind to suffer after the rapture too? The babies? Or is there a cut off age?

Or not real? I’m going for third option.

If people actually believe this rapture nonsense Heaven is going to resemble One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, maybe the archangel Gabriel will be Nurse Ratchett.

All I think is that if they believe that, they have an amazing imagination and need help about living in the real world.

It is quite blind blowing that there are actual adults who believe this utter nonsense and are actually ok with people being ‘beamed up to heaven’ at the drop of a hat. Barmy doesn’t come close. It does make me wonder if people who believe such guff struggle to find their place in the real world, so I do have some compassion for that.

God is a loving god? Is this the same god that advocates slavery, child sacrifice and genocide, to name but a few of his crimes. As for jesus dying for our sins, he didn't do much die as take the weekend off.

People who are getting on with their lives are not ready for heaven.

You said it’ll be mid-task, no time for goodbyes. Who exactly are the type of people, who are fit and healthy, have actual lives they are living (children/family, friends, jobs etc) that they are ok to be swooped up at a moment’s notice?

Well yes
im trying to get someone who believes, to square that circle and explain why their loving god behaves like that, or accept he’s not all powerful. No luck on either thread tbh but I do worry that the sensible logical Christians are not really posting and it’s the few extremists who are engaging.

I remember when people talked about Tony Blair being evil and the antichrist. Now it's Trump, Putin and Musk getting the job.

Yes, this new thread has a very different flavour to the first and not one to my taste. I hope it gets back on a reasonably even keel, I won’t hang around if it stays barmy.

https://sheilaalewine.com/2023/03/29/when-will-the-rapture-occur/

Lots in here about the rapture. I've got a Blondie earworm now thanks to this thread.

Not all Christians believe in the rapture. It's more popular in the US I believe, and more of a minority view over here. I believe, as per the Bible, that Jesus will return suddenly and judge the living and the dead.

Well I won’t hold my breath. Maybe the posters who believe it are American, it’s not the sort of thing people in the UK would admit to out loud, in real life, especially if they are seen as living regular lives.

How will Jesus judge the living and the dead?

Yes, the "true believers being disappeared leaving behind a neatly folded pile of clothes" view of the Rapture is a belief that has largely come from American evangelical churches.

It is interesting to watch folk ganging together to mock and scorn. So much fun. The popcorn ran out on the other thread.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-scoffers.html

There is a good debate with points from both sides but this latest stuff is so far out there that obviously we think it is ridiculous. Impossible and will never happen.