Discussion about Jesus’s death which now encompasses creationism and the second coming. Thread 2

[ZoggyStirdust]

Continues from here if anyone wants to

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5318577-to-not-understand-why-christians-think-jesus-died-for-our-sins?page=40&reply=143772264

Yeah, I'm a Christian and highly sceptical of these people who claim to be able to heal miraculously!

Still really interested in thoughts on this.

Any sensible person understands these claims are ridiculous.

Don’t hold your breath. You won’t get a sensible answer.

Well it's clearly a sham, not a miracle! There are a lot of 'fake' miracles around, too, such as lengthening a shorter leg. They're not real, and I say that as a Christian.

You were present on every occasion presumably?

Working on it! It's complicated.

Were you?

No, just as you weren't. But unlike you, I'd guess, I have actually seen some Christian healing ministry and I have some knowledge of some people who do it and people who have received it.

What healing have you actually witnessed?

Thanks. I really am interested, not being goady, so I appreciate it.

Yes I too have known of people genuinely healed but there is a LOT of fakery around these days.

What have you witnessed?

Someone completely healed of stage 4 cancer. This was many years ago.

So you believe God actively healed someone of stage 4 cancer but doesn't heal literally millions of others?
Why?
What made that person so much better than the millions whom God didn't cure?

What part of the body, what treatment were they having?

I would strongly suggest you listen to Tim Minchin"s song 'Thank You God'.

Song starts at about 5.25 minutes. It"s very disrespectful - but asks some very reasonable questions (and is very funny)

When asked if he thought the universe is full of life, Minchin summarised: "The chances of this happening might be one in infinity. Put it this way: the chance that there being intelligent alien life are, for me, infinitely higher than the chance there being a creator god."

Yes I believe he was healed. Well that's the question isn't it, why? It's totally up to God's divine providence. It doesn't mean that person was better (although interestingly he went on to become a vicar in the CoE), not at all.

Honestly can't recall, this was over 40 years ago, just vaguely recall it was an internal cancer of some sort.

40 years ago the chances of a misdiagnosis were even higher than they are today... Just to thow that out there.

But, circling back to the thread title, did Jesus die and was resurrected, or did he just pass out / end up in a coma and then come round? Given the level of medical knowledge at the time, that's a possibility sure;y? Though the Egyptians who preceeded christianity by 2 or 3 thousand years were pretty advanced on the medicine front, so perhaps they would have known!

If you realised just what Jesus went through pre-Crucifixion, let along the actual Crucifixion itself, I doubt you'd think he just 'passed out'. I am actually surprised he survived what happened before it, to be honest.

He was sentenced to the death penalty for breaking laws of that time. No different from prisoners on death row in the US. He didn’t survive the death penalty - no one does.

People have and do survive the death penalty though. If it happens with modern methods, and those from a few hundred years ago, it seems likely it was also possible with more primative methods...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/28/lethal-injection-surviving-execution-attempt-alabama

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Babbacombe_Lee#:~:text=John%20Henry%20George%20%22Babbacombe%22%20Lee,and%20was%20a%20known%20thief.

Incredibly rare and from all accounts, Jesus was definitely dead.