Discussion about Jesus’s death which now encompasses creationism and the second coming. Thread 2

[ZoggyStirdust]

Continues from here if anyone wants to

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5318577-to-not-understand-why-christians-think-jesus-died-for-our-sins?page=40&reply=143772264

There's lots of websites that will happily explain why the earth's flat. The only difference is that there's a lot more money in young earth creationism so the websites are flashier.

You regarded AiG as a source reliable enough to quote to others to support your views. And you didn't even bother to look into who they are and what they do.

P. T. Barnum would've loved you.

I found the pp explanation of the from of the second coming quite interesting. It explained things I wasn’t aware of. However, one can’t help quickly running the numbers on the free and then $0.99 ebook. Roughly a quarter of Christians are at the ‘Evangelical’ end of the scale, which gives you around 700 million people. If only 1% download that ebook, and a second for a friend, that’s a little under $7 million income.

Now, I was criticised in the first thread for saying that I thought religion exploited its believers, and I hate to be cynical, but surely the Christian thing to do if you have important information on such a major event is to give it everyone everywhere freely and as quickly as possible. Or at least to all your believers. The fact that’s it’s for sale makes it hard for me not to draw the conclusion that this is a money making exercise first and foremost. I hope not, because I think people should believe if it helps them and they want to, and shouldn’t be criticised or taken advantage of for doing so.

You mean the Rapture? Nobody knows. People can only look at world events and trends, compare them with Bible prophecy, and conclude that there is no reason why it should not be very soon. Some ppl think the Pope's death is very significant.

There are lots of relevant vids on YouTube, but I can't comment on their accuracy or predictive value. I agree with their common theme that a lot of things in the world are happening fast.

Can’t wait! Should I go to work or is someone going to round me up as a non believer and put me on a one way train to hell?

As you can guess I don’t believe your comments at all. World disasters unfortunately happen all the time, but the world hasn’t come to an end.

The problem is that Andy Mcintosh is a professor of thermodynamics. He isn't a geologist, nor is he a biologist, nor is he a paleontologist.
If I want some glazing done in my house I'm unlikely to take advice from a plumber (however good a plumber they might be)

His expertise is in flight and birds though. He has studied wings and feathers and found them to be evidence for creation not evolution

I get what you say about the possible sales approach. Evangelical organisations exist to spread knowledge. They cost a lot of money to run, and selling books and vids is a normal way to raise funds. Offering $20 worth of ebooks for 99 cents, almost nothing, doesn't strike me as grasping.

There are many evangelical organisations in America. I just picked this site becauseI thought the way it explained the subject suited this MN thread.

This is not a top name, and I doubt if it will get a huge number of sales.

One thing just as sure as death and taxes is Christians predicting the imminent return of Jesus. Exactly the same predictions that have been made every year for two millennia.

I know they are highly regarded among some other young earth creationists and that I have found their articles on creation to be informative and reliable. There are plenty of places that have some good information and some not so good. AiG isn't perfect, but that doesn't mean that nothing they produce is useful or true.

Christians have been saying it'll be soon for 2000 years! Jesus said that no one knows the day or the hour

That AiG is highly regarded among YECs is no more notable than the fact that there are some really popular flat earth youtube channels. They are both fringe belief that rely on bogus scientific claims and conspiracy theories.

If you want informative and reliable sources for information about evolution then I repeat my offer to suggest some good books for you.

Ok, what books would you recommend?

These are all excellent:

Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne
Evolution: What the Fossils Say and Why It Matters by Donald Prothero
The Blind Watchmaker by Richard Dawkins

How will we know the Rapture is happening?

It will happen quickly. Whether minutes, hours or days we don't know, but not a long time. Believing Christians will suddenly not be here any more. No goodbyes, no finishing jobs, putting things in order or tidying up. Just supernaturally picked up and carried away.

It's more than just numbers. A lot of people with a restraining influence on the world won't be here. The Antichrist will be revealed. The world will become chaotic and evil at a much faster pace than we see even now. A lot of people will then come to realise that Jesus is real, and will believe in Him. But they will be stuck here during the Tribulation. That won't be pretty.

There have been some films based on it. I saw one on TV some years ago. Quite thought provoking. Look on YouTube.

Jesus said watch for the signs and be ready. The signs are here. No more Bible prophecies need fulfillment before the Rapture. Remember, the Rapture is before the Second Coming.

I’m sure if you sat down with Sir David Attenborough he would kindly explain why that statement is wrong and show you the evidence accross multiple species including humans.

You actually believe people will just disappear as if they’re being beamed up by Scotty on the Enterprise? Mid sandwich, mid toilet visit, mid sex, mid giving birth?

Come on now. You cannot be serious.

God is a good loving God. The Bible speaks of a great shout, so I imagine people will have time to finish their toilet visit or whatever. My point really was that people won't be saying goodbye to everyone and doing other stuff.

The Bible says that several prophets were taken directly to Heaven, as was Jesus. I have spent enough time with a very charismatic church, and heard and read enough about extraordinary things God does - you would be amazed - to doubt the "beaming up" as we might call it! To the God who made the universe, transporting people is not challenging.

Were there unicorns on the ark, or did they miss the boat? Is this why people think they're imaginary?

He is indeed, a good and loving God. However, not all Christians believe in the rapture. I'm not convinced by it, I think it depends on your eschatological stance. It's not explicitly referred to in the Bible.

None of what you are describing sounds like the actions of a loving god. In fact none of the actions on the previous thread did either. I’m left with the conclusion that god is either cruel, or powerless.

Don't know about unicorns, I wasn't there.

As I said,

"Disclaimer. Some Christians have different interpretations, but I believe this one is the majority view."

It is the view of a great majority. Mid or post Trib rapture is pretty hard to support scripturally.