Discussion about Jesus’s death which now encompasses creationism and the second coming. Thread 2

[ZoggyStirdust]

Continues from here if anyone wants to

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5318577-to-not-understand-why-christians-think-jesus-died-for-our-sins?page=40&reply=143772264

Something I don't understand is why atheists can be so keen to justify their belief in the non-existence of God.

It isn't about justification, at least not for me. Let me put it very simply: Just as you derive strength and comfort from your belief in God, so do I derive strength and comfort from my belief that there is no God. In my life, when times get tough I have faith in the innate goodness of most human beings around me - and that has not let me down in my 57 years through some really difficult and heartbreaking situations. I know that it is my responsibility to make the most of my life in terms of doing right by others, leaving the world a better place than I found it and squaring what I do with my conscience and against the laws of the society I live in. I know that when I die, I will live on in the memories of the people whose lives I have touched. And that is enough.

My belief that there is no God is what carries me through life and keeps me going.

Thank you for that. It helps me to put your comments in perspective.

You're welcome. I hope this makes you see that we atheists are not going through life being less happy and somehow morally 'lesser' than those who believe.

James Maloney was not Jesus. He was just doing His work as best he could, which was pretty well.

@pointythings I understand exactly what you mean. I felt enormous relief the day I finally put the shackles of believing in god in its box, locked it up and threw away the key. If there is such a thing as god then he let me down time and time again, when I was going through a particular personal hell. I’d had enough. Since then I knew there was nothing, no more hoping, praying, pleading, whatever else it is you have to do to get this lazy, useless god to actually do something! I know without a shadow of a doubt there is no god. He’s mysterious and lazy and ineffectual because he doesn’t exist. His ‘existence’ is nothing more than a placebo, sometimes it works psychologically on some and on others it doesn’t. I have no issue with someone getting great comfort out of believing in god and I would never say something scathing to them … unless they started spouting fire and brimstone crap and nasty threats of hell. Relishing ordinary but flawed people burning in hell for eternity because they didn’t god enough is sick.

So who was the 4’8” woman who got hugged by James and grew to 5’7”?

I recognise that this applies to you. I don't have contact with many people who say they are atheists so I don't know how others feel.

There are fossils and current evidence of thousands of individual species, but no evidence of any creature going through evolution.

Funny 😁

Humans have evolved

• lactose tolerance in adulthood
• fair skin at northern latitudes

Because both things gave a selective advantage.

Lactose tolerance provides a means of accessing high calories/nutrition from dairy, which gives better odds of reaching adulthood and having healthy children.

Fair skin at northern latitudes helps ensure higher levels of vitamin D despite lower levels of sunlight.

Well, obviously I am surrounded with atheists because birds of a feather and all that, and we are pretty like minded. I can assure you that I'm not some weird brand of rare super happy and positive atheist among a multitude of atheists who are all suitably miserable and downtrodden because they don't have a faith.

The Christians I know take no pleasure in the thought of people suffering in Hell. Quite the reverse, which is why they do what they do.

The Christians and perhaps churches you've had dealings with must be very different to those of my experience, and I'm sorry they have left you feeling like that.

Ok!

But still the same species.

Yes, even other Christians are quick to point out the lack of evidence (other than his own vague accounts) of many of James Maloney's purported healings

https://legacy.sermonaudio.com/new_details3.asp?ID=117467

When he does catch one on film...fair to say it's underwhelming.

As a non-believer, I can get my head around faith generally. I can get my head around people believing in young Earth Creationsim too (however strong the evidence to the contrary, the history of the planet and life upon it cannot be directly observed).

Belief in the extraordinary tales of these faith healers, though, particularly when there is usually zero evidence (not even a person who claims to have been healed)...I'm sorry but it just seems so incredibly foolish. It's not as if belief in these fanciful (ridiculous) stories is even required by any faith, and most Christians would likely call bullshit too....

Lots of transitional fossils have been found. That was true when The Institue for Creation Science put out their nonsense paper back in 1985, and more have been found since.

That no transitional fossils exist is simply a lie.

4 famous transitional fossils:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaenamontanari/2015/11/17/four-famous-transitional-fossils-that-support-evolution/

God didn't have a wife.

The Hebrew God most certainly did have a wife, who was sidelined around the time of the Babylonian Exile.

As for Jesus, everything about his story was plagiarised wholesale from that of Mithras.

A mortal woman visited by the Spirit of God in the form of a dove, impregnating her, a messenger explaining it. Being born in a cave on December 25th. Fleeing persecution.

12 disciples, all the miracles, the evangelism, betrayal and execution by the authorities, resurrection on the third day etc etc.

All to please a gang of Roman noblemen, who were refused entry to the cult of Mithras simply because they were rich and powerful, not because of their soldierly qualities.

A church who is following good safeguarding practice would ensure such a person attended an evening service where young children were unlikely to be present and would not be asking families with children too have this person around to their houses as that would just be stupid. I have actually been in this situation and was able to continue( supernaturally I believe) to be kind and civil to a man who had sexually assaulted myself, my best friend and my cousin( who was his neice) I was able to see him as an incredibly sad old man . He went to prison twice for his offences. He did become part of a church near him and was managed very carefully and kept well away from young children. There is nothing to be gained by hating such people as it would have destroyed me and I was not going to let that happen. Every time I pray the Lords prayer I say ' forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us'
I cannot expect to be freely forgiven if I do not forgive others for what they do to me.

Where do you get that from?

Try this:

coldcasechristianity.com/writings/is-jesus-simply-a-retelling-of-the-mithras-mythology/

Very well said. I haven't heard of a comparable situation in churches I know, so had not really thought about it, but I think they would take a similar approach.

Where do you get that from?

Robert Graves.

I think you're being Gravely misled.

As there is so much understandable confusion & because we’re no longer largely tribal peasants who need metaphors come back with updated rules for life? It absolutely was easier to believe for those who knew Jesus, even the sceptics believed in the end. If genuine Christians are taken in by obvious charlatans something has gone wrong.

Will Stephen Fry be forgiven. For those who do believe, he’s missed point? I am of course referring to his famous speech about God.

Another evolution example..... resistance to permethrin in headlice! This has happened in my lifetime. There's a selective advantage - lice who are resistant to being killed by permethrin survive & lay more eggs, those who are not are more easily killed. As a result in the last 50 years resistance has increased hugely since permethrin was discovered and used widely.

That is evolution within a species, which creationists don't deny. It's one species evolving to a completely different species that doesn't happen!