AIBU to ask what you think should happen with Trans men?

[Akiddleydiveytoo]

OK, I know this is an emotive subject that people feel passionately about so I'm prepared to don my hard hat here in anticipation of the backlash I'm likely to receive. I'm genuinely not trying to be goady though - I am genuinely interested in trying to understand people's opinions on this.

Since the Supreme Court ruling last week there has been lots of discussion about trans women and the impact that the ruling has on their rights to access female only spaces. There has been less debate, however, on the impact that this ruling has on trans men. Surely, if it is ruled that trans women are men, then it follows that trans men are women and should, therefore use women's facilities.

Is this really what women want? A post op trans man who had undergone full gender reassignment surgery would, to ask intents and purpose have a male presenting body complete with muscles, body hair and penis. Would women really be comfortable sharing facilities with such a person. Similarly, should a post op trans woman with breasts and a vagina be forced to share facilities with biological men?

I fully understand and support the need for women to have female only safe spaces and disagree wholeheartedly with trans women competing against biological women in sports due to their genetic advantage but I'm not sure the SC ruling of last week is really the 'triumph' that women's rights activists claim it to be as it presents as many questions as it does answers. I also fear that this judgement will result in single sex spaces being lost altogether as service providers, unable (or unwilling) to comply with all of the legalities and complexities involved, just get rid of single sex provisions in favour of unisex/ gender neutral facilities.

As I said, I've seen lots of debate about this over the last week but, for me, I still have a ton of unanswered questions so I was just wondering what others opinions are.

I think transmen should be able to chose which facilities to use. This is in practice what has been happening and it doesn't seem to have given rise to issues to date. Plus unisex if they want them.

Would need legislation though. Yes, it means we're treating transwomen differently from transmen, but the issues are different. Because of.....sex

'trans men' are women. they do not have the male strength or the psychological disturbances that make men attack women.

Yes it happens, yes sometimes by transwomen who are in a class known as men who commit the vast majority of sexual assaults. And transwomen prisoners are actually even more likely to have committed sexual assault than non trans male prisoners.

Hang on, are you saying that some men pretend to be something they aren't to access women only spaces? Surely not
And no, TM CANNOT have a penis. They can have some sort of mutilated clitoris type arrangement but it is not and will never be an actual penis.
And you can say it until you are blue in the face, I can tell what sex someone is by looking at them, even when we all had to wear masks in public it wasn't too difficult.

Because the number of trans women is so vanishingly small compared to the general population, and the number of sexual crimes committed by women is similarly small, so even if you factor in poor recording, it is still a very very small risk.

Trans women are still more likely to be assaulted, than assault.

Cis men that remain cis men are overwhelmingly the biggest threat to women. There is no evidence at all to suggest that those that choose to change gender present a risk to women.

I support the Supreme Court ruling - a trans woman is not a woman. And I support single sex provision on a case by case basis.

I don't support fear-based decision making, and I don't support the fact that all the attention on trans women is letting the cis men off the hook. A trans man or woman using the same loo as me is not a threat to me. The many, many cis men that have groped me, the two that assaulted me and the one that raped me, are.

These people should use the accessible loos.

Honestly what is wrong with everyone! This is 2025 they are everywhere.

Link as the photo might not work for now.

https://fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-male-criminality-sex-offences/

You could say the same for Trans women

No one talked about TW ??
Come on

No you can't. Have you been living under a rock? The whole trans movement was about men. The piss protesters were men. The TRAs are men.

have you been under a rock? Women have been sacked, arrested, threatened with murder and rape for saying what the SC and Starmer have just said.

But only the biological sex determines whether a person is a man or woman, no matter what they’ve had done! That’s what all this is about isn’t it?

I assume OP you have not heard of Maya Forstater, Allison Bailey, Kathleen Stock...I could go on for ever. Go away and come back when you have.

I'm happy for transmen to use our toilets as they're female.

Many do already as they prefer to and it doesn't appear to have been an issue, probably because they don't behave as men.

I doubt very much that there are many men worried about transmen in our spaces. It's highly unlikely that they'll want to assault us and less likely that they would 'win' a physical altercation.

The most urgent issue for me is men in womens prisons, particularly as trans women in prisons have a high rate of sexual crimes against women.

Transwomen need to be in a special third prison category or else in the male prison population. For those men who discovered that they were transwomen when caught, or sentenced, it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

As this means that transmen have to be in women's spaces, or a third space, that's fine. I don't think they're a threat to women, as they are biological women, despite testerone they may be taking.

The whole farce of pandering to trans rights activists was allowed to go on for far too long, now there's a lot to unpick.

At least a woman in the UK will now be able to challenge the presence of a man in a toilet, changing room, therapy session for rape victim. If they're a transman they can explain that they're biological woman.

Surely trans men (ie women) WANT to use men's toilets etc as that validates their choice? I guess they mostly pass as boys/young men, pose no threat to men, and can't imagine most blokes would even notice. As I woman I would not mind sharing a space with these other women, but the more masculine they look, the more it would cause discomfort for women and girls who think they are males invading the female space. A tricky one. Time for unisex facilities - taken from both women's AND men's spaces, rather than just relabelling women's loos and changing rooms as before, while leaving the sanctity of men's untouched.

Those stats are WELL dodgy. The 48,000 general population size is classed by the ONS as experimental as anomalies emerged that suggest people didn't understand the question in the census - apparently 1 in 100 people in Tower Hamlet are trans, and 13% of people with English as a second or third language are also trans.

Oh don't act so superior. As if it's reasonable to post a vague comment that you expect others to research to know what you're talking about. What's so smart about doing that?

I'm sorry but this has now led to another problem. People are allowed to discuss that without advance knowledge of your research materials.

Trans men can almost certaily continue to use the men's toilets if they want to because despite the law (which hasn't changed, as far as I am aware - we just have clearer definitions of the terms used in the legal language) being clear about who is entitled to use single sex spaces, almost no man in the world will fee genuinely threatened by a transman in their space. If one does then he can ask the transman to leave, secure in the knowledge that his is within his rights to do so. This is not a fight for women to concern themselves with. Men are perfectly capable of defending their own spaces since they are vanishingly unlikley to be genuinely fearful of transmen.

Males in female only spaces have a completely different real and cultural significance. People who deny that are denying reality. Men as a class pose a real risk to women as a class. If they did not, there would be no need for female only spaces .

Many women have historically been kind to transwomen who use female toilets, not complaining, despite sometimes feeling unconfortable about it. This is because there were few transwomen and the majority of them until recently were just going about their business, trying to keep a low profile and did no real harm. Whilst numbers were small and there was no overt threat, women did what they always do, they were kind and accommodating and they participated in the lie that transwomen are women to save the feelings of the transwomen.

The encroachment of increasing numbers of males in female toilets, men who like to dress a females or to just declare themselves female (because they paint their nails and have long hair (eye roll) has put an end to that tolerance and women have claimed back their spaces. This has led to the suffering of those transwomen who have lived their lived quietly for many years and have used female toilets in that time. This is the fault of other transwomen /transvestites taking the piss out of the kindness of women. It is not the fault of women.

The fact that it has taken so long and has been such a fight to do this tells you a lot about how society treats women who ask for their rights to respected

As to transmen using women's toliets, I'd say most women are fine with that. some transmen who pass very well may be challenged but they need only say they are transmen and that will almost certainly be that.

A very small number of trans people actually alter their genitalia. Most trans men will have female genitalia. Even if they have a neo- phallus odds are it doesn’t inflate to get an erection as that’s another complicated surgery. I think they’d be welcome in the loos. Never heard of an attack by a trans man.

So many places have self contained unisex provisions nowadays. I workout and about and most loos are self contained.Theres a unisex cubicle option at the gym and the pool.

I think people are looking for problems now single sex has been clarified as surely the rules don’t apply to meee! Hiw can you tell without genital inspections? I am clearly a woman and if you don’t like it suck my lady dick. Same shit different day. Best not to get bogged down in the whataboutery. The law has been clarified. No debate.

Please don't use the ridiculous and unnecessary term 'cis men'. There is already a perfectly good term, that is 'men', ie adult human males.

Are you having a laugh?
It's always men who say they're women shouting the loudest.

...yes?

Actually I agree that this is sensible. Trans men are actually women so they are a negligible threat. It’s only male bodied people that should be restricted. They’re the ones that can’t behave.