How to nicely manage grandparents’ expectations

[MaltipooMama]

I was to pre-face this by saying that everyone across our two families get on really well, no fall outs, no animosity, nothing at all like that, I just want some advice on how to delicately navigate this situation without hurting anyone’s feelings!

I currently have a toddler who will be 19 months by the time our second child arrives, he has always had a lovely relationship with his grandparents (my partner’s parents. We aren’t married but for ease I’ll use the IL acronym) and sees them regularly. This normally looks like 3 hours a week when they’ll come over to visit, and they were also here for over five hours on Sunday, I cooked a big Easter roast, they took him to the part etc so from my perspective I think they get a great deal of time with him (although I’m sure people will come along to tell me I’m wrong 😂). They’ve never babysat as he is in paid childcare three days a week and at home with his dad and I for the rest of the week. I do protect my own time with him as it was a massive change him starting nursery and I miss him tremendously since my time with him was cut in half following my return to work. To add, this is more than he sees my family which is normally 1-2 hours a week so there’s no power struggle there.

So herein lies my question, I’ve noticed a few things have been said by his grandmother that have sent little alarm bells through me, and at 7.5 months pregnant I need to know if my protective instinct is kicking in or if I’m right to feel this way. Here are a few examples of things have have been said by ILs:

When the newborn arrives, we’ll be around a lot to help ease the burden (side note: I do not consider my second child a burden!!)
When you go into labour we’ll be here to help (with the oldest), now I’m having a homebirth and have already organised for my best friend to be here whilst I’m in the late stages of labour to stay with our son as she is who I’m most comfortable with being here if I’m shouting upstairs or walking around in a robe!
We’ll keep some toys here for when they both come over
You’ll need a lot more help when the second child arrives

I appreciate the above may not seem like a lot in isolation, but coupled in with they already don’t feel like they spend enough time with him and are desperate for overnight stays, to babysit etc I’m concerned that me having a second child is going to make them feel like they have a window to increase control with my son. My partner’s grandmother (his mother’s mother) was virtually a third parent to him and he would see her almost daily, she babysat a lot, and was heavily involved in his life so to their family this is the normal way a grandparent would be, but for me the concept is totally alien.

How can I manage expectations delicately and nicely so that I’m not going to get a barrage of requests and assumptions once my second child arrives? To add, although my partner would be happy with the level of contact his parents require, he respects the fact that I’m not comfortable with this and wouldn’t push me to do anything, however he’s never there when his mother has these conversations with me so isn’t able to step in. His mother is also very persistent and will often say the same thing/ask the same question in multiple ways and try and get an answer there and then. She’s a lovely person, she can just be quite overwhelming which I struggle with as my family tend to let me take the lead on things like this so I’m not used to this approach!

Sorry I cross posted with your update. I guess it's clear you don't like them which is fair enough, you know them and we don't, but again I really don't see what they've done that's so bad.

Maybe our family is weird but we absolutely would expect to include new babies in all family events and gatherings from the get-go, we'd see it as we must have done something badly wrong and been really cold and exclusionary if parents expected/wanted to not come to things like a 40th because of having a baby, we'd make every effort to make sure that the event fits around their needs and that the baby can eat and sleep and play comfortably in whatever house they're in. No-one would want a beloved sibling or child and their family to be missing from an important family event because we hadn't taken the trouble to include them. I really hope that doesn't come across as pressuring people particularly the in-laws, I'm sure it doesn't in our family because we talk openly about it, but maybe in yours things have been misinterpreted as being about pressure or control or entitlement when maybe it just as simple as they love the baby and you and want to spend as much time with you as they can?

I get that you feel upset about MIL taking the baby when they're crying, again in our family someone would probably (without having to be asked) help the mum/parents if they're running around after the baby and can't sit down and eat or enjoy the event but this wouldn't be because we have bizarre feelings we're 'owed' time with the baby or want to deprive them of their mum or anything, just because it's nicer for everyone if the care jobs are shared and then everyone can enjoy spending time together. Again I don't think I'd ever take a child away from their mum if they were distressed and wanted her but I have taken babies once they're fed and walked them up and down and winded them and so on (with mum's permission/agreement of course), obviously you know your MIL and maybe she is just an evil cow but are you sure she didn't misguidedly take your DS to try and help rather than to keep him from you?

Damned if they do and damned if they don't springs to mind here. They are lovely and supportive, just be kind back and there is no problem is there? It comes across that you are overthinking it looking for problems.

I think its hard for some people to understand if they're not in the situation.
I also find it frustrating when grandparents keep insisting that I must need a break from my child.. I'm actually fine, thank you for the offer of babysitting but its not needed!
It becomes a problem when they keep pushing for more time etc.
I'm like you and only have 1 day with my child because of work and seeing grandparents on the weekend, I don't want to decrease that.
They're actually my parents and I love them dearly but its still frustrating!
You just need to be firm and consistent - when they're ready for sleepovers, we'll let you know, every time they ask, keep saying the same thing.
My daughter is 3 and never done an overnight, we've not needed it and its not in her best interests so why would we?
It does sound like they want to see your kids when they want to regardless of if it makes sense for your children, evening parties are not really kid friendly. Taking a crying infant away from their mother would have really pissed me off.
You just need to counter everything with, thank you for the offer but its not needed.

Absolutely nothing you’ve written makes it sound like they’re overstepping the mark to me. The workload jump from 1 to 2 kids is beyond exponential. Take what you can get.

The routine thing can be something that's worth gritting your teeth over. I used to get irritated with my ILs who were of the "kids can just fit in" school of thought which didn't fit well with how needy mine could be as toddlers.

However I kept reminding myself that they won't need naps forever, they will be able to vocalise their needs more etc. The majority of the things that are a problem as babies and toddlers won't matter at all after age 3 or 4.

I don’t think these things are particularly unreasonable they just have a different approach to children. Many families(mine included) take babies out to meals and parties and I’m not sure why the toddler can’t go to the wedding with his dad? Toddlers love a party even if they don’t understand it’s a wedding. I woidl take the opportunity for a nice treat for myself (pregnancy massage/afternoon tea/whatever floats your boat) and a good rest. What does your partner think?

I wouldn’t have liked them taking a crying baby away from me but again I suspect they think they are being helpful, it’s easily resolved by simply using your voice and saying that you will take him back now to settle him.

We'd also include everyone in family invites and be a bit put out if people didn't attend like OP is.

I see the benefit to DS that he gets used to family events, feels part of something, has some memory of being surrounded by people he loves having a good time. I accept we're all different, however the overall impression you're giving is that you want control over where your DS is.

Of course I wouldn't feel aggrieved, no. But have your ILs said they feel aggrieved or is that your assumption? You seem to feel as though it's definitely a competition or someone's keeping score somehow of how nicely you're treating them and how much access you're giving them and making sure that's totally 'fair', is that based off what they've said or your DH or what? Personally as a grandparent I couldn't care less about fairness compared to the other grandparents or other family, and there's no way I'd be keeping a log of how much I'd been allowed to see the baby or how many dinners I'd been cooked and comparing that against some imaginary standard of fairness or reasonableness and then getting aggrieved if I felt it wasn't coming up to scratch. I'd obviously love and welcome whatever time I get to spend with the grandkids but how much or how little that is is entirely dependent on everyone's circumstances rather than any arbitrary fairness. If that's what you feel your ILs are doing I can see why you feel uneasy.

I would feel really upset though if my daughter or daughter in law felt I was overstepping or controlling to the extent she felt she had to limit or supervise my involvement with the baby, without giving me the chance to change what I was doing or explain myself. I'd be so sad (nb not angry or aggrieved, sad) because my intentions would only have been good but clearly my communication or actions had been off the mark, and I'd hope to have the chance to put that right. That's me though, of course like I said it's possible your MIL isn't a nice person at all.

@maxelly I do like them very much, but as a human being it’s normal to still feel conflict on certain topics and behaviours, as I do with my own family. You can absolutely like people and feel negativity towards some behaviours in tandem, and I’m sure it’s the case the other way around too. It’s fine and it’s normal and it doesn’t have to jeopardise relationships or create extreme measures.

With the birthday scenario in particular, my son saw his aunt earlier on the day of her birthday before the party, to give her her gifts and auntie card. To have taken him around for a party for one hour when he was unsettled and adjusting to a bedtime routine would’ve been of no benefit. It’s entirely reasonable to invite people to these events, but to repeatedly push the issue and place guilt when the offer is not accepted, is not.

In the crying baby scenario, she is absolutely not an evil cow and would’ve most certainly been trying to help, hence why I have never raised it with anyone outside of this thread and it did not change our relationship in the slightest.

I think it’s normal for you to be looking for signs that your grandchild’s mother is treating you badly based on the numerous threads around this on MN, but there are grey areas and navigating family dynamics when a baby is born is challenging, there are generational differences as well to consider and what might have been perfectly normal for you might not be perfectly normal now, everyone is different and it doesn’t mean that relationships have to become strained or difficult

Well I have the exact same age gap and it was absolutely mental going from 1 child (easy peasy) to 2 under 2. I can barely remember the first year of my daughters life I was so sleep deprived and stressed out. It is EXHAUSTING. I know not everyone is the same but I would have chewed my arm off for some family support at that time. Also 17 months and crawling is still an adorable baby. Very different to a demanding 2 year old with no concept of waiting while simultaneously dealing with a six month old at the same time. God, my hairs are standing up just remembering the chaos (with lovely moments in between!) I really would keep the in-laws on board and wait to see how you feel when DC2 actually arrives.

I sense that my initial question has become lost on this thread in and amongst talk of weddings, equality and control! As a reminder, my original question was how do I navigate a conversation whereby I am being told of all the help I am going to be given before my child is even born. I’ve not said I won’t accept any help that is kindly offered, or that my children’s grandparents aren’t allowed to be involved, or that I am preventing a relationship with them. I don’t want other people’s definition of help forced on me before I have a chance to see what that helps looks like, or to have no say in what my life will look like once my second child is born. I’ve actually had some really helpful suggestions on here though which has definitely helped me to understand how to navigate this kindly and appreciatively, which was my main objective.

or to have no say in what my life will look like once my second child is born

This is a huge reach from the comments your in-laws made. That's why you've had some of the reactions seen I think. Nowhere has anyone said you have no say. Your in-laws have made an offer. You can refuse it.

Ithink I’d leave your options open an extra set of helpful hands is really useful when you have two. It can be a juggle having two small people with needs that don’t necessarily align.

We don’t really know how much help we will need till she/ he arrives but thank you for offering, we appreciate it type stuff.

Little things like having an extra person come along to park or pool so that when you need to change a nappy or nip to toilet you don’t need to take the whole gang.

Don’t exaggerate. From what you say they’ve offered, nothing more.

When baby number 2 comes you’ll find out very quickly why most MN threads on this topic come from the other side: “why won’t my DM/MIL just give me some help, I’m desperate?!” etc

@Hercisback1 but if you try to imagine how this could intensify if you’d heard the same comments weekly over a period of 3-4 months, it builds on you and exacerbates your feelings around it, hence why I’ve started this thread so far down the line and not after the initial mention of it. What I was hoping for from this thread, and bringing it back to my original question, was how to refuse whilst also trying to be kind and appreciative. Despite anyone’s search for underlying issues or animosity, that’s really all it was ever about, and I’m grateful to the people who have given advice on how to do this. Because I don’t want to hurt their feelings or feel rejected, but equally the longer I don’t say anything the more it’s becoming an assumption and a given, which is what I’m trying to avoid. Over the course of my life tactfulness hasn’t always been my strongest quality so I’m inclined to sense check now as to not upset anyone.

@lazycats but where is the line? The two options can’t solely be either; don’t accept all the help you’re being offered and reap what you sow as it’s your own fault, or allow people to help as much as they’d like because that’s what they want to do, regardless of whether or not you need it. Why is it not ok to have an input as to when and with what you need help? My question wasn’t “how can I prevent my children’s grandparents from being involved” it was how do I approach it tactfully so that their help and responsibility isn’t determined before my child is born.

Try to remember that it’s extra difficult for the paternal grandparents in this tricky situation. It seems to me they’re just trying to say they want to be involved.

You have a son and one day you’ll be in their position.

@MaidOfSteel did you notice any of my updates though about how they spend more time with my son than my own family and how I am extra vigilant (because of this perception) about ensuring that they’re treated equally? If I have a daughter in law one day I feel like I would be glad for her to be so conscious and sensitive of this

Thank you! I wasn't having a go at all, i'm just new to the whole childcare thing. My in laws are much younger so I guess that makes all the difference and totally understand your choice.

Ok, sorry if I've been partially responsible for the derail. Kind ways to say no, well I mean I think variants on 'no thank you' such as 'its a very kind offer but we'll be ok on our own' , 'you're so helpful but we're busy that day' , 'we love having you around but actually my best friend is already coming' or similar are fine in most circumstances. I wouldn't necessarily take the fact she keeps repeating herself as not taking no for an answer, it is irritating but some people are just like broken records because it's what's on their minds, they don't necessarily expect to hear a different answer or reply to the 50 previous times they've said it. Sometimes they don't even realise they're doing it.

If you are finding a polite no is insufficient I find the active bystander 4 'D's a helpful little tool for potential conflict-y interactions, they are below - all are equally valid and none wrong or impolite per se.

Direct - so you simply ask the person to stop doing/saying whatever it is you don't like directly. E.g. MIL I know you mean well but you repeatedly asking me to let you help when the baby comes is upsetting me and making me feel like you want to take DS away from us. Please stop asking. I will let you know you what would be helpful when the baby gets here'.

Distract - you change the subject onto something else, so MIl says 'ooh you'll need help when the baby's here' and you say 'yes we are busy getting ready, did I tell you already about how we went shopping for baby clothes/ set up the cot / took DS to the park' and then talk about that instead. Or thank her for some previous episode of help, or repeat a memory from when your DS was a little baby. Anything else other than the contentious/annoying subject.

Delegate - tell your DH how you're feeling and ask him to politely address the issue with his parents.

Delay - say 'That's a nice offer but we really can't say right now' and just leave it at that/repeat if asked again, chances are you won't actually have to give her the answer in the event anyway...

Obviously if they're horrible/narcissistic people the above won't work and you'll have to take more drastic measures but you say they're nice so I'm sure one of these at least will work?

I did see your posts and it’s lovely that your in-laws do see your son. Like your own family, I take my lead from my grandchild’s mother, but I also am conscious that I don’t want her and my son to think we’re not interested. It’s a delicate situation on both sides and you’ve had some great advice on how to thank them and appreciate their gestures without excluding them.

@AliBaliBee1234 oh it’s no problem at all! I also equally respect people’s choices when it comes to family looking after children, just whatever works best. My boy ADORES children and doesn’t have any cousins or friends his age. His first day at nursery he spent trying to climb on the children and hug them 😂 so I knew he’d get a lot out of three days with his little friends. Also his grandparents on both sides are very sensitive to mess and are always wiping his face and trying to keep him clean, whereas he comes back from nursery covered in paint, sand and god knows what else which always makes me feel like he’s had a lovely time 😊

This makes alot of sense and I was on the fence about having a childminder for one day for this reason!

I understand that to outsiders that they are being nothing but kind and generous and you must be some kind of monster for refusing anything, but I also understand that the constant drip drip drip of essentially being told you will need help etc can be wearing.

As well as having some stock phrases you can repeat to them (Thanks, we will let you know if we need help) you need to get your DP on board and get him to make sure they know they will be invited after the birth but it will only be for a short visit. Maybe set up a signal with him so that if you have had enough he can say 'well I think @MaltipooMama /new baby needs a rest so I'll get your coats' and then firmly usher them out.

Good luck with everything!

OP my dynamic with my in-laws is very similar.

Lovely people, always available to help but unfortunately they never ask what I need/ want. E.g FIL might show up to fix something that's broken in my house without warning.

It's hard because of course it's lovely he wants to fix it, but I could for example be in the middle of a work call and he will just show up and start drilling something. Never seems to occur to them to ask would it suit me for him to be there at this time, do I want this thing fixed or am I planning to replace etc.

That's just one example but it's hard to deal with those kinds of attitudes without appearing ungrateful.

I heard the phrase "the price of community is annoyance" recently and I've been repeating to to myself at such moments!

Ultimately, I'm glad to have them and their help but sometimes that comes at a cost!