To think that social standards have slipped because people don’t feel shame anymore?

[ForBreezySloth]

It feels like over the last couple of decades, a lot of social standards have gone downhill - not just in how people behave in public but in how they present themselves, how they speak to others and even basic manners.

It used to be that certain things were considered embarrassing and that kept people in check. Now, it’s almost like there’s a pride in being shameless. Noisy phone calls in public, wearing pyjamas to the shops, blasting personal drama online - there’s no sense of “maybe I shouldn’t do this.”

I’m not saying people should live in fear of judgement but has the pendulum swung too far? Has losing a sense of shame made society worse?

I think it all got worse after covid. Once people found out the government were doing what they liked and not following their own rules many thought why should they give a shit either

@theunbreakablecleopatrajonesyou're right about the hygiene. A few years ago I watched an old documentary from 1976 about maternity wards. Some of the doctors looked unwashed by today's standards. You wouldn't get away with that level of personal presentation in a professional job now.

You didn’t answer my question.

And you said they weren't against the law.

Which you’ve agreed with.

You still haven’t answered my question.

you gonna shame me into it???

What’s really strange about this is you seem really pleased with yourself for berating someone enough to get the exact answer you want, in the exact format you want… so, it appears, YOU can shame them for saying someone whose dog shits on the floor* shouldn’t be ashamed.

Your behaviour on this thread a perfect example of the controlling bullies who use public shaming to get their own way and make themselves feel good (for their perceived superior moral and way of life).

• no idea why the dog shitting on the floor is something you’re chosen to pin on me as “not being ashamed of” - probably the worst thing you could think of? and the one you thought would back me into a corner to agree with you? Made it easier for you to do a big AREN’T YOU AN IMMORAL CUNT post when I didn’t, didn’t it?

You said to the OP

"I find it really unsettling that you want people to feel shame. That’s a really nasty thought to have."

And when many people (not just me) pointed out that shame isn't always a bad thing, you doubled down and said people shouldn't feel shame, it's a bad thing and a form of controlling people.

You then said that a dog owner shouldn't feel ashamed of leaving shit on the pavement and not clearing it up.

I genuinely won't ask if you think child abusers or perpetrators of domestic violence should feel shame, because I suspect you'll double down on that too.

LMFAO!!!!

There's also this assumption that wanting to control people is bad. Sure if I'm trying to control what colour onesie my neighbour dresses her baby in. But I'm not unreasonable to want to control people in terms of social norms like picking up dog poo. We need some agreed social standards!

True.

Society couldn't function without some form of control.

They're the first examples that came to mind, theres plenty more which arent crimes but are things that most people would think are not appropriate. Another example, see lots of threads about this, an older person (usually a male) seeking out a younger person for a relationship, lots of judgement there, that judgement and shaming of that person is ok, beccause that is the subject of the day

You are the only one who has asked about dog shit. I have literally never had a problem with dog shit in my life.

i am ALLOWED to think shame is a bad thing. You are not right, you don’t set the rules. I don’t care what you think, but I do think you are showing a serious lack of emotional
intelligence with this shame as punishment think and you probably don’t know much about the impacts of shame

The dog shit is irrelevant.

I could just as easily have given another example of shameful behaviour and you would still have said they shouldn't feel shame, wouldn't you?

The idea that no-one should ever feel shame because shame is a bad thing according to you, is utterly bizarre.

Murderers, rapists, con artists, thieves, thugs, pedophiles etc should very much hang their heads in shame.

Again, shame is not always a bad thing.

“Murderers, rapists, con artists, thieves, thugs, pedophiles etc should very much hang their heads in shame.”

so what do you get out of the murders who hang their head in shame that you don’t get from those who aren’t ashamed?

What specifically does it do, for you, to know which ones experience shame and which don't?

someone still got murdered either way, right?

This sounds a bit like the Transphobia argument.
People are saying the word shame is unacceptable so I suppose you could say you feel an affinity with others or not depending on their behaviour or a solidarity with most people but which you don’t feel for certain other members of society. Rather than use shame.

its obviously no problem not to like people 🤔 but that’s not the same as shame and it’s not a language thing as shame is a specific emotion

Well if they're truly and genuinely ashamed, they're a lot less likely to re-offend.

Unless they're told by someone like yourself that shame is a bad thing and they shouldn't ever feel it.

Interesting that another thread where a worried mum is being attacked and told she should be judged and judged badly because she is brave enough to express worries about her daughter being disabled (or might be)

So that type of judgement is ok I suppose?

But generally speaking we mustnt judge?

We’re going round in circles though because that’s not true, and people told you that pages ago

What's not true?

Anyone who feels genuine shame is less likely to re-offend than those who don't.

That's blatantly obvious surely?

Of course it doesn't mean they won't re-offend but if someone's whispering in their ear "Ahh now don't you go feeling ashamed of yourself mate", they'd be a lot more likely to.

That's pretty obvious I think?

It’s not true that people who feel shame as less likely to reoffend.

it doesn’t matter if you think it’s obvious, you don’t know anything about it.

But you're right, we are going around in circles here.

If you genuinely believe that a rapist, murderer or a paedophile should never feel any shame then we're never going to agree.

You’re trying the dog shit argument again. Or as another poster put it “have you stopped beating up our wife yet?” Question.

it could be an interesting discussion if you had the emotional bandwidth to have it

Why on earth can't you wash on a Sunday who said so?
It's crazy
Where did this rubbish originate from?