Lack of human contact causing MH crisis?

[Flipslop]

I’ve been doing alot of reading (and have some formal training) in MH matters, particularly around trauma and burnout recovery. A key thing that keeps coming up is the fundamental need for human contact to keep mentally well, especially when recovering from trauma.
whats everyone’s thoughts on this? I think I’ve really seen the detrimental affect on my own mental health since working from home over the last 5 years
am I being reasonable to think WFH and just generally a more distant society is stacking up for MH crisis?

@FoxRedPuppy I'm sorry I didn't intend to minimise this, I recognise that this is a complex and highly difficult issue: it affects a number of my friends' children and there is as you say more to it than this.

But I think it's part and parcel of a wider phenomenon in which individuals have persuaded themselves that interaction with other members of their species (aside from a very small, self-selected group) are fundamentally damaging and something to avoid.

There is a very wide and complex array of reasons behind this, some political, some economic, some social. But overlaying this is a general sense of retreating into the tribe: the family, the ethnic group, the national group. You can see this very clearly in the political rhetoric of today but I think you can also see this a lot in social micro politics.

I feel like 20 years ago the world was much more outward-looking in most aspects and much more embracing of difference. Today we are encouraged to treat those we live alongside with suspicion.

This mania for extreme individuality and the fetishization of "being an introvert" is one of the outputs of this: people rushing to identify themselves as being out of reach of society and untouchable: people who are desperate to avoid social interaction and convince themselves that it is unhealthy to interact with others. I see post after post on here, both on this thread and on thousands of others, from people espousing the view that the less social contact they have, the better. The idea that its offensive and intrusive that people expect you to socialise with colleagues. The idea that people ringing your doorbell are being rude. That friends are "more drama than they are worth" or that people are "draining" and small-talk is toxic, that extroverts are all narcissists or that you can never truly trust anyone outside your immediate family. Another output of this involves people wanting to restrict all their social contact to digital only, and this certainly fuels the issue of children struggling with school, though it's probably not the only factor.

It's a complex issue which weaves in all kinds of difficult dynamics and in a lot of cases involves mental illness or anxiety, so I have deep compassion for people whom it affects. But we as a society need to stop pretending that it's normal or healthy to avoid other people. It's not, its deeply damaging and regressive and we need to tackle it.

I think WFH is a bit of a red herring. People can have an active social life without going to a place of work. In my experience workplaces can fulfil a very basic "being around people" need but not the deeper, meaningful human connection need. (This is my experience and will depend on the workplace.)

I agree with the gist of the OP that lack of human connection is a large part of the driving force of widespread poor mental health. Other things driving this lead to a lack of meaningful social interaction (eg. working long or erraric hours) so often it still comes down to social interaction.

I'm someone who needs my own space to some extent, but I get this easily. I also, very clearly, need meaningful social connections, but this is much more obvious as it's the thing that's so hard to get.

I loved it when I was young and we'd sit up half the night talking thoughtfully. But you don't have to be young and responsibility-free, or stay up half the night - you can have these chats in the daytime in the park whilst the kids play, or over a coffee. Or even not have the chats very often, but spend time together, share humour, exchange little messages inbetween that are a form of sharing your day. But it seems like people so often forget how much this matters.

I think people's isolation is one of the major drivers of mental health problems.

It's not just a recent thing, it's been going on for decades, and many people don't even realize that our society is not normal because they have never lived in a community with a strong social fabric.

Other things that have affected this significantly are the car, the television, the fact that so many people have to move away from their hometown to work as adults, that people move jobs and homes so often. The move away from neighbourhood schools, lack of playing out for children. Even women going out to work, because it meant that neighbourhoods in the daytime became deserted, leaving only a few behind.

There have been studies on how strong relationships and friendships are formed, and one of the important things is really just ease of maintaining contact. If you see people regularly around the neighborhood in third spaces to have a chat (say while doing your shopping), if it takes 10 minutes rather than half an hour or more to get together, you are much more likely to see people regularly. And friendships just take a certain amount of time spent to establish, so the harder it is, the less likely it will happen. Then you move in a few years, or they do, and you need to start again - it's too much for people.

My dad told me a story yesterday, he has lived in the same small town/village for 20 years. He was walking down the street to the seniors club, and was struggling due to health issues. Someone driving by saw him, and didn't really know him but called a fellow who did. He called my mum, who called her friend who works at the hospital, who went out and picked him up. The effect of that is not just a matter of someone helping practically. It's creates a feeling that you are cared for, that people value you in your community, that you are safe there, it's more possible to be active because others look out for you and help. That's hugely positive for mental health IMO.

As an introvert, I understand why some people like the options of anonymity, but I think that despite the effort that social interaction can involve, it can still be very protective.

I agree with you. Fur those who don’t work. And usually older too.
Much harder to find activities like this when you’re already working full time. Let alone if you also need to juggle chikdren in the mix.

Plus I wouldn’t associate that with socialising, as in spending time with good friends. It’s spending time in a structured activity. A bit like work really.

Fwiw I have two young adult dcs. Theyre saying similar things. No money to go out to the pub. An increasing view that alcohol is bad (not arguing with that btw!) so Theyre choosing to not go out, even when everything is nicely organised for them and no one would have an issue if they were drinking a soft drink rather than a beer. ‘Socialising’ is online through gaming. Dating same. And that’s from two persons heavily involved in their specific sports, runs the Uni club etc…. So it’s not as if they’re stuck at home not going out.
People are getting very insular.

I've thought for a while the starting again from scratch thing is simply too much for a lot of people.

Do things you enjoy. And then go a extra inch or so to help.

Yes lack of human contact most definitely, overall, contributes to the mental health illness increase in recent history.

But no one is going to knock on your door, initially at least.

Things change if you step out though. If nothing else it's a numbers game, the more people you meet the more likely you are to form closer friendships with one or two.

I relocated (& have done multiple times)
I belong to a few different local groups
Some of the groups are predominantly attended by females, although the group is open to everyone.

Talking to people
Some people are scared of joining a new group , which is why I I invite people to come & try

One group that I belong to, we go for a coffee, lunch & a chat. However, people can just come for the chat.

The biggest things that I have learnt

Join some groups & I have found that you may be invited to join other groups or socials
Think of a pebble thrown into a pond & the ripples expanding outwards

Get out yourself, staying indoors will not get you invited out anywhere

Most people are kind & generous

Ive worked remotely from home since 2015.
I would agree its affected my MH. However, i think thats because i live alone for some of those years. Dont really have family to see and my friends are busy with there kids mostly.
I think if i had a good family unit around me (actively visit each other in person daily/ weekly) and seen my friends in person more than every quarter (it seems) then i dont think it would contribute to MH problems.
My MH problems affect me going out alone now to even a supermarket and driving. Its a fear. I think its because everything is done online (whatsapp, food orders etc) so the world seems scary. Its weird, but true.

I've WFH permanently since Covid and am struggling now with the lack of face to face interaction. I have three kids, work PT, have friends I see regularly and do sports, so I do see people in person a lot. It's just that I'm an introvert and in most of those situations I can pretty easily avoid talking to people face to face if I want to! Whereas at work in an office it's just unavoidable (and for me it's good practice). I definitely feel my social muscles have weakened and I'm quite nervous or self conscious in social situations now.

As soon as it doesn't suit my childcare situation I'll be looking for a hybrid set up.

I think people's isolation is one of the major drivers of mental health problems.
It's not just a recent thing, it's been going on for decades, and many people don't even realize that our society is not normal because they have never lived in a community with a strong social fabric.

Absolutely with you @TempestTost - we are not designed to sit in offices for nine hours a day, or to spend our free time in front of screens. We've been outdoors and active for thousands of years - yet in the last several hundred, our lives have changed almost beyond recognition. And we wonder why people are anxious and overwhelmed constantly.

As soon as I left the "rat race" and set up my own business working outdoors, my mental health improved ten fold. I was so much happier. Calmer. Healthier. I spoke to people, got the sun on my skin and got my body moving. I know it sounds like some kind of TikTok post but my God it changed my life. And I always laughed at my dad telling me to get outside and do some exercise!

I am the same. I see quite a lot of coverage abut loneliness especially in old age, there have been advertising campaigns about it so it's not as if it's not known about. But it always assumes that anyone who doesn't have a social circle is desperate for companionship, and for me it's not the case.

I have my DH and dcs, so I have social interaction with them. And I'll make a limited amount of small talk at the school gates and in shops. But otherwise I don't talk to anyone else and I'm quite happy with that. I'm a sahm and people often encourage sahms to go out to work just for social contact, and I wouldn't enjoy that at all . I don't sit at home all day, am mostly out of the house, but just going out in town and to the gym or art classes or museums (all on my own), and would much rather be doing activities I choose to do, than being stuck at work with the same people all the time.

I don’t feel it’s sustainable and the more I read about the importance of social interaction whether that be causal greeting with a stranger or a deep chat with a friend, it’s an essential part of being human

Everyone's situation is different.

I have three dc, a dh, a dog, extended family, a couple of good friends. My life is busy. Too busy, often! I see people, interact with people plenty, I can't bloody avoid it. At school drop off/pick up, before and after school, neighbours popping in, nipping to the shop, multiple kids activities, daily dog walks. And at work barely half an hour goes by without a Teams or zoom chat.

For me, WFH is the peace, quiet, space and 'me time' that I need. No one able to pop up and hover over my shoulder wanting something. No having to drown out other peoples' noise to concentrate. It's lovely and massively beneficial to me and my mental wellbeing.

I have my DH and dcs, so I have social interaction with them. And I'll make a limited amount of small talk at the school gates and in shops. But otherwise I don't talk to anyone else and I'm quite happy with that.

The thing is, without trying to upset you, your children will grow up one day and leave home. They won't be there to interact with you everyday because they'll be too busy with their own lives. And more than 50% of marriages end in divorce - relying on your immediate family for all your social needs is a big risk.

From personal experience it's too much contact that's the real problem, at least too much of the wrong kind of contact. I'll quite happily sit with my own thoughts for a few days. The things that trigger me are people being overly demanding of my time or generally inconsiderate of other people.

I think for many contact is necessary for good health but it's like anything, better to have no human contact than predominantly bad human contact.

This. WFH 4 days a week is better for my mental health because it means I have more time before & after work to get out & do things I want to do / see people I want to see. And I get to spend my days with my cat.

I do see that never talking to anyone, or only talking to the people you live with, could be very isolating.

Bit confused

is anyone suggesting that?

I mean I think having to do that is very commonplace now because of how much more transient our lives have become. Starting over from scratch socially either in a new place or because your old contacts have moved on seems to be something lots people struggle with.

Lack of meaningful human contact is harmful but I think the social landscapes available to many of us can feel so poor that it doesn't feel like a solution.

@WhatNoRaisins in terms of actually moving, I guess it depends where you live and where you're going. There's obviously more opportunities in a city.

It's not the reason why I moved but things do feel better here for complicated reasons - and I moved away from London.

I imagine the social landscape is the same everywhere though, in a way. A lot of people have described it, but it really is that "my little family" mentality. Add it up with online things and it's a real problem for some of us.

i'm not even an extrovert. I don't really like the labels to be honest. But living so much online doesn't work for me. It doesn't seem like a real interaction at all.

I try to think of myself as being lucky to have had a good chunk of life before lockdown changed everything.

I think it's very clear that the world as it is now really suits a lot of people. I know it doesn't make it any easier to cope though.

The thing is, without trying to upset you, your children will grow up one day and leave home. They won't be there to interact with you everyday because they'll be too busy with their own lives. And more than 50% of marriages end in divorce - relying on your immediate family for all your social needs is a big risk.

Absolutely this. It’s also not setting your children a good example to have such a limited social life.

Not everyone is the life and soul of the party and it’s fine to want a quiet life but children need to see adults interacting in a positive way with other adults outside of their own family.

My mum became very isolated as a SAHM after having had a busy earlier life and I struggled with making friends as a teenager because I had no positive role model of a woman without her own independent identity and social life. It took me years to shake this off. The signal you are sending them is that living alongside people outside of their own family is problematic and difficult.

@Thepeopleversuswork totally with you. I'm far from the most sociable and I'm probably at my happiest when I'm out alone on a walk with my dog, but I still recognise how important it is to have a social circle outside of my marriage and immediate family.

It also puts a huge amount of pressure on your partner if they're all you have in terms of a social life. I'd even argue that it's not fair on them, in many ways.

Actually, divorce rates have never been as high as 50%. I think it peaked at 41% and has been decreasing from that point for years and years now. Anyway, that's probably extraneous to the discussion and the point still holds that it's best to not let your life shrink away so it hinges on only a few people but it's a stat which seems to roll off the tongue and doesn't really stack up against ONS data.

The same. I love being alone. I'm an only child. I find being around people for long lengths of time very stressful. It'd take a HUGELY significant pay rise to get me into a non-WFH job again.

The thing is, without trying to upset you, your children will grow up one day and leave home. They won't be there to interact with you everyday because they'll be too busy with their own lives. And more than 50% of marriages end in divorce - relying on your immediate family for all your social needs is a big risk.

There's also the possibiity of bereavement. Or that the other person in the relationship will want a more active social life when they have fewer work//family commitments, and develop their own interests and friendships, leaving their spouse/partner behind.

Absolutely.

I always see threads on here where men maintain their hobbies and social lives but women seem to give them all up - and it's such short-term thinking. Yes, your kids need you when they're young but they won't be young forever - one day you'll turn around and they won't be there and then what?

I also had a friend who was widowed very young (in her twenties) - luckily she'd kept her friendships going as she ended up on her own, pregnant and with a toddler to raise!

Bit off piste but I do wonder what the vanished friends think has happened to me, or us, as others are clearly struggling.

I mean, I suppose they never think of us at all but if they do, they probably don't think that other friends vanished too? That there's quite a few isolated people post Covid... has it not occurred to them or it has occurred to them and they don't give a shit?