I think my mum is hoarding, what do I do?

[mummytoonetryingfortwo]

I’ve been staying with my mum over the Easter weekend and I’ve been helping her to pack up her house as she’s moving.

It’s become apparent that she has boxes upon boxes of things from when I was a child. She won’t get rid of them, despite them being of no use. Some of the things I’ve found include hot wheels cars that are broken, a Thomas the tank engine train track that’s missing half the pieces, every stuffed toy I ever had, toys that don’t even work anymore. I’ve asked her a couple of times why she won’t get rid of them and she insists that the grandkids could use them one day - they won’t.

She also keeps every pillow she’s ever bought in case the stuffing could be useful in the future, she has balls and balls of wool that she’s half used, basically everything she’s bought.

Her reasoning is that she’s spent money on the items and therefore she needs to keep them - but she’s very comfortable and they’re sitting in the loft gathering dust. She won’t even replace towels, she still has the same towel sets from when I was a child (I’m 26 now), they’re worn through and you can see the sun through them when they’re pegged out to dry but she won’t get rid of them. What the hell do I do?

All this!

The irony of some on here calling someone selfish who is minding their own business, in their own home, with their own stuff. Is it not the ones who feel it impinges on them that much, despite not actually being asked to do anything or indeed it in any way having any effect on their own (moved out with their own kids) lives, yet feeling the need to get angry about it over social media, that are the selfish ones. Spare a thought that this is something that makes someone happy . Whether it's sentimental. Whether it's because they like having "stuff". With all due respect what the Frick has it got to do with you, or anyone at all. What sad mundane lives must people have if they have the time to be getting up in arms about someone who likes to keep and utilise their stuff, that they have spent THEIR own money on. I always find it so strange that people feel that the way they're living is the epitome of the way life should be, when in fact we're all just following societies expectations. Maybe if everyone kept their things to re-use the world wouldn't be in the state its in

Quite.

Fabulous Pharmacist no my post does not assume the inheritors time and labour is free. I don't know how you've come to that conclusion. My post quite clearly says they don't need to clear it themselves, they can pay someone else to clear it and recoup the money from the sale of the house. If it's not owned but rented then it literally isn't legally the family's responsibility to clear it out, it's the landlords. If the person clearing the hoard isn't the beneficiary then why clear it if they don't want to? They've no legal obligation to. The executor can clear it and the money to pay for it comes from the estate. If there is no estate other than the hoard because it's a rented home then as already stated, it's landlords responsibility. If the inheritor (or someone else) chooses to give up their time and labour because they want to salvage something from the hoard or because they feel they should, that is their choice and they should own it, not get angry with the hoarder who hasn't actually forced them to do anything.

Toolatetoasknow take charge of your own home. Your DC don't have storage rights there! Tell them to come fetch their old stuff if they want it otherwise it's going to the dump. They can't decide to keep it but insist it stays at your house, not if you don't allow it, it's your home so your decision.

Taking over her life isn't the answer.

Refusing to let her take over yours, is.
You should have either booked into a hotel or gone home, when you realised you'd been lured with the promise of a relaxing weekend but really she wanted to use you to avoid paying for packers. A simple "no mum I'm not doing that" was all you needed (and to leave if she tried giving you any hassle about that decision). Not doing things you've no rights to do, like hiring skips and throwing out her possessions. I understand your anger, if she's tried to manipulate you into spending the weekend packing. It's not a competition though, of who can be the most controlling to win the fight. Just take control of your own life using boundaries and assertiveness.

It depends on the reason for the hoard.

Some have hoarded almost accidentally. Grief, illness or a mental/physical condition has caused them to not clean, organize, declutter when they ought to have done. A pile starts to form, it's easier to leave it and ignore, it gets bigger, thinking about it becomes overwhelming so it continues to be ignored. The place is a state, there's random items and trash everywhere so they just add to it. Won't let anyone clear it for them out of shame or embarrassment or fear of something nice that they want to keep being accidentally thrown out and also having to acknowledge the state of the place and how bad things have gotten. Easier to turn a blind eye and ignore. The hoard will be stressing them out on at least a subconscious level though. If they can get past the shame etc and let someone come and clean it all out, they're relieved and pleased to have space back.

Then others have hoarding disorder, a mental illness in its own right. Characterised by an inability to throw things away and an excessive amount of possessions. Seeing usefulness in items most would discard as trash. Emotional attachment to items, everything "sparks joy". Strong environmental/ monetary/personal feelings about waste. Easier to let go to someone else who'll use it and this can be the difference between getting rid of something they've decided to get rid of or continuing to keep it, because putting into landfill is especially hard. Compulsive aquiring is also part of it in many cases. Whether that's compulsive spending or the acquisition of actual trash from other people's bins! If forcibly de-hoarded they'll usually just re-hoard again. Hoarders often panic at seeing open spaces in their homes, those open spaces stress them. The hoard makes them feel safe, like a fortress or a nest.

Not all hoarders are squalor hoarders. Some have highly organized and clean homes. The clutter scales online don't show the second type. There's behaviours eg blocked doorways, rooms or furniture that can't be used for the intended purpose due to the hoard, stairs used as storage, SABLE craft etc supplies (stash acquired beyond life expectancy), keeping the broken/useless and never repairing/ upcycling/crafting with it, not being able to have home repairs done because it's impossible to access the broken thing, being unable to find or access things despite knowing they're in there somewhere, things expiring before they can be used etc . Hoarders can de-hoard but they have to be on board with the process and go at their own pace, which for some will be glacial.

A shopaholic that hasn't decluttered and has accidentally developed a hoard due to feeling overwhelmed and ignoring the problem will be happy to see some help with selling things and recouping some of the money spent and getting space back.

Not everyone is aiming for minimalism either. Some people are maximalist or have a genuine collection (that isn't taking over the home) and there's nothing wrong with that.

In your position, I would hire professional packers. Pack up all the stuff you will throw out so that it’s easily accessible , so you can throw it when she eventually passes on.
I wouldn’t upset her about this if she has the space.
it’s ridiculous IN YOUR OPINION, but it means something to her,

Well if nothing else this thread has made me feel really old! I am in my 50s and hadn’t realised I should be getting rid of all my stuff so I can be ready to move into a nursing home in a few years….

I’ve seen it recommended on here that people should start decluttering/Swedish death cleaning in their 40s…

Some local authorities have volunteers to gently coach hoarders to feel secure enough to let go. I have a very patient friend who does this - not for me, I can't wait to get rid of unnecessary stuff, don't want to leave it for family to deal with when I've gone. But she says it's very slow work. It might be worth contacting your council to see if they can help.

😳😳😳

From a personal viewpoint, I’m decluttering ( and I know this is depressing) because I know people who have had heart attacks and strokes , at fairly young ages .

@Redfloralduvet thanks for your post, its really insightful. Its helped me understand which type my Dad is, I think he is the first type that you describe.

I'm older than your mum. My own mum is decluttering mindfully now.

I do really like a good clearout myself, but unfortunately my OH is a gatherer and a mess generator.

He keeps ... Everything.

Not organised, not nicely displayed, not conveniently to hand, but in plastic boxes, piles and more piles.

I can see obsolete catalogues, fliers, empty chocolate boxes from here. Old notebooks. Magazines (Fucking mountains of them).

Old tech is a particular thing. Film, VHS, DVDs, mini discs, CDs, LPs, 78s, cassettes, reel to reel tapes, trunkloads of negatives and photographs, and the cameras, recorders and frequently dead players. Obsolete computer gubbins from the last 20+ years. Nothing is ever watched, listened to or looked through. Just ... Kept.

Although the house is a three bed, two reception, we live as if we are still in a one bed flat because those are all the rooms we can actually use, because of it all.

I have resorted to smuggling stuff out (my OWN stuff) to the charity shop because he will go through bags and pull stuff back out. Books he'll never read. Bulky household things we never use (bastard bread maker ....). Shabby old towels for rags that we could use for ... Something ...

This is but one aspect of an otherwise pretty good happy relationship. We'll only be able to stay in this house a few more years before we must downsize.

I think hoarding at all its various levels is a huge and often unseen problem, behind closed doors.

There is some sense in it. In 20-30 years of adulthood you can amass quite a lot of stuff. It would be far more overwhelming see to tackle at 70 having never decluttered before. I'm in my 40s and not doing it in preparation for anything, only to be more organized. I liked the perspective of there being no point keeping something for someone in the future when they may not even want it. All those years spent looking after it while it takes up space and then if they feel it a burden to be gifted this thing upon death that they never wanted and have to dispose of... what's it all for? Better to ask them now if they'd like it and give it to them so they can enjoy it longer or dispose of it if they don't want it and save myself the hassle of storing it. I see no harm in starting to declutter when I've a little too much stuff, rather than wait until one day I realise every cupboard is crammed full and the spare room is unusable. People who regularly declutter as they go through life won't need to think about doing Swedish death cleaning in their 40s, but for those inclined to hang onto everything just in case, it can be a useful way of thinking about the future and getting started with decluttering. It's supposed to be a positive thing not a morbid thing.

Dontletmedownbruce if you want to help him yourself, see if you can get an agreement to tidy up for him so long as you only throw away actual trash. So you won't make a value judgement on the benefits of keeping to repair versus throwing out that broken Dyson, but if it's a supermarket t-shirt covered in cat pee out it goes, an old envelope is tossed out but a scribbled note on a post-it is saved, empty food containers can go but that pile of "useful" cardboard boxes that aren't mouldy/damp/covered in pests faeces can stay. Then you'll end up with an area in the middle that can be cleaned. That encourages the desire to clean the rest, which means moving the stuff, which means you may as well go through the stuff with the person to see if there's anything they're happy to let go of. If he's not an actual hoarder there probably will be. People can end up in a situation where they don't realize they own 50 black t-shirts because they couldn't find one so bought a new one and now are happy to let some go. It's slow going and takes endless patience though.

Unless he's the type that'd be happy to go out for the day while people in hazmat suits come in to gut the place, only saving things that are worth a lot of money or clearly in use or obviously sentimental. That's the type of situation where eg your passport could be accidentally scooped up with the rest of the trash and thrown out though, if it's not in a sensible/safe place.

This is a thoughtful and kind post but seriously I don’t think many people at all keep empty food containers or boxes covered in pest faeces do they? And a t-shirt covered in cat pee?!!! Honestly, who doesn’t get that straight in the bin?!

Or maybe I’m just envisaging something quite different by “ clutter.” Im thinking bookshelves with some books lying sideways on top of the vertical ones because they don’t “fit”. Or an extra armchair tucked in a spare room that isn’t needed elsewhere but is a proper wingback style from Granny.

I think that’s maybe the reason for disagreement on this thread. There’s a huge difference between old study notes in folders on the one hand ( or op’s mum’s extra suitcases) and a mouldy box or items of clothing with animal pre on them. Op has mentioned nothing of the sort…

I must admit, at 46, I'm going to be doing it.

After I've finished with my parents' house and grandma's!

I have no intention of leaving this kind of mess for my own son.

This is a thoughtful and kind post but seriously I don’t think many people at all keep empty food containers or boxes covered in pest faeces do they? And a t-shirt covered in cat pee?!!! Honestly, who doesn’t get that straight in the bin?!

People living in a squalor hoard who's entire home is basically landfill. I haven't seen the home of the poster's dad (not OPs mum) who I was replying to so I've no idea how bad it is. It's common for people to have damage somewhere in their hoard that they didn't know about because they haven't accessed the area in a long time. A bit of mouldy wall that they didn't know had developed a problem, a food can that's rusted through or a packet that's burst open under the weight of the hoard and the contents are sitting there spilled out and mouldering away and being eaten by bugs, clothing they didn't realize the cat peed on but is nevertheless there at the bottom of the pile stinking. Sometimes people reach a point they don't bother putting anything in the bin any more, it just stays wherever they last set it down. Depends how bad things have gotten.

OPs mum doesn't just have a bit of clutter. She's got broken toys and broken suitcases. Crying at the thought of letting go of anything. It's pretty clear she's hoarding. OP hasn't really given much clue as to whether it's a squalor hoard or organized hoarding, or the scale of the problem, only that she's annoyed by it.

Following for advice.

Is there a forum or anything for friends and relatives of hoarders? I have so many questions.

DM keeps 1000s of old envelopes “because they are useful for shopping lists”. She keeps the plastic boxes mushrooms are sold in - she has about 70 of them. She has about 100 jam jars. She has cartons and cartons of old newspapers. She has every painting my siblings and I did as kids (I am now 50). It is unbelievable how much STUFF can feel relevant to a hoarder.

@TheInebriati there is one for children of hoarders but it's mainly a place to vent and fairly unsuitable for those interested in the actual disorder, and what could be done.
You will find quite a lot of people with hoarding disorder actually crossover with being the friends and families of other people with hoarding disorder. We are not as isolated 'other' as people want.

Some, including myself, will answer questions as best we can in order to try and help others gain a better understanding of a stupidly stigmatized condition. (though in my case later as I'm on lunch break)

I'm a 2nd generation hoarder who thought any genetic or learnt component had bypassed me, as my home bore NO resemblance to what I'd grown up in.

I actually have organized HD, (a poorly recognized HD presentation) and have long fought a tendency towards OTT cleaning, (OCD level) having initially grown up as literally one of the items in a classic extreme squalor hoard, without a bed, fed rotting food, and years of wearing the same two sets of threadbare tattered clothes, even to school.
My parent eventually was made to choose what to keep and what to let go.
They couldn't really. I didn't make the keep list. (did end up back there for a time)

My Dc's have been brought up so very differently and not around most of the stuff, or knowing what I really think, it's mainly not in the house and their lives.
It took a long time for me to realize the apple actually hadn't fallen far from the tree, I was just instinctively protecting my Dc's from a childhood similar to mine, and kidding myself.
Despite that protection one of them has shown hoarding tenancies from a very young age, (as did I with hindsight) the others haven't.

Those who think HD is all about meanness, selfishness or has to involve tottering piles, rotting newspapers, broken things, and animal feces, are wrong. Those things can also be present, some hoarders are also mean people, but many mean people aren't hoarders. Many with HD are generous by nature, it can actually be part of the problem.

Hoarding disorder is simply an insidious mental illness that sneaks up on people as a maladaptive behavior response to something else unaddressed going on, where the inability to discard slowly takes over an individuals life, until it forces spotlight attention onto the idea that something is going very wrong with them.
Many of us are very self aware and battling it. A dodgy industry and lots of misconceptions, and a desire to 'other' and hate, around makes it harder.

Chaotic hoarding and squalor hoarding are easy to recognize from the outside, because of how they present.
But HD can actually look ordered, clean, collected, curated, even spacious. It can also masquerade as nicely displayed collections.
It isn't what it looks like or where it's taking place (ie home, attic, garage, work, storage units, cloud, hardrive, Cd etc etc) the quality of the items, (or quality of info when digital hoarding has become a serious issue) or how it's kept.

There is only one test of 'is this hoarding?'
The depth of abnormal attachment for the keeper, the inability to discard and the extreme distress suffered when trying to, even when stability, family and survival itself is threatened. For some ending their lives becomes the only way out.

The 'stuff' is actually the symptom, not the disorder itself, which is why just clearing out the stuff without addressing the underlying disorder doesn't work, anymore than just force feeding an anorexic does.

I have helped several others sort out their homes, gain a better overview and have cleared two for others who had buried themselves including in a horrendous situation.

It's where I've got to as a work in progress with reasonable insight and overview and a hope of being able to cure myself, because it's become clear there is very little real help available.

There is a very helpful Facebook group called Family and Friends of Hoarders.

50s-60s is a crunch point for people with horder tendencies to recognise it and sort it or descend into full-blown hording which will impair quality of life.

DM is mid-80s now. We moved to a bigger house when she was early 50s and 35+years on, there are still removal boxes tucked away at the back of the least-used rooms. Redundant, broken furniture has piled up. Decades of discarded fashion. Unread magazines still clinging onto articles she wants to read, not that Marie Claire Oct 1993 is particularly relevant any more...

For many years the house was generally kept clean and mostly functional. She always intended on sorting things and spurned all offers of help. Arthritis set in in her 60s which didn't help so it's already been 20+ years of impaired mobility.
Pets... hair... their waste... she has no sense of smell and can't smell that the house reeks like the litter tray that it is.

Unsanitary hoarder homes aren't made, they evolve insidiously as control slips away and chaos creeps in. In someone that can not let go of broken and redundant items and is clinging tenuously on to memories and unrealistic intentions, unless there is recognition and change of behaviour, the state of the home, the volume of contents, the condition of contents and living conditions will deteriorate. Older hoarders often have poor health. While health can be a contributing factor, in an unclean house, with damp from poor air circulation (potentially rotting contents) and animal waste from pets or pests make respiratory problems common. Trip hazards, fire hazards. Possibly posture issues from knackered furniture or not using furniture properly in extreme cases.

50s isn't old, but it is slippery slope time. Few of us know when health issues or life-shit will occur, but generally life doesn't reliably get much easier and waiting until 60s is a risky strategy. 70s is getting too late for most to deal with it before a crisis point. You're already dealing with a person in denial, with trauma, difficult habits and higher risk of health issues. In this time, the house is deteriorating because it's hard to fix issues, maintain or decorate.

OP is reasonable to be concerned about someone who can't filter down their 14 suitcases to a functional level and can't clear out the tatty, old, broken ones that were already replaced.

BUT OP can not do it for her mum. Going on a purge is as effective as binning someone's cigarettes or pouring their alcohol down the drain. Hoarding is a control response often to trauma and losses, but is a form of controlling the hoarder's environment and memories, and a clear out increases that insecurity and tends to result in a backlash. It is not managing the underlying psychology and strategies. The hoarder has to recognise the problem, be willing to deal with the underlying emotions that the hoard is covering up. Only then can they really be helped within the range of what they can accept.

DM is still mithering about items left behind in a 1980s house move- things like cots that were never going to be used again. The real triggers are older and more serious, but any unauthorised clearence is a disproportionately huge issue. She's a hoarder who cares more about knackered old furniture than family's ability to visit safelt and comfortably. She's not the worst in terms of load, but it is my business that it affects our relationship through her old age, and it's going to be a major issue to deal with after death on top of grief. It's frustrating to have a problem you can see but no means to really mitigate. And after decades of her hoard being disproprtionately treasured, it will feel like a betrayal to clear out. Plus there are genuinely worthy items muddled up with the crap that do deserve sifting for.

It is the same type off affliction as addictions; an irrational addiction to posessions.

BogRollBOGOF expresses it all so eloquently ‘an irrational addiction to possessions’ . It was clearing out my parents’ house that helped me see the benefit of less things, along with not needing to keep things as I can at this stage of my life afford to buy them again. I’m getting there but it is a long process as I try to be eco about it. I start with the easiest things and the physically big things and just keep going.