M&S changing rooms

[SweetChilliGirl]

Was I unreasonable to send this to M&S?

Good morning,

Having not shopped for lingerie with you for several years, due to your policy of allowing trans-identifying men into the women's changing rooms, can I now be assured that, in line with the judgement of the supreme court males will no longer be allowed to identify their way into your single sex changing rooms, thus preserving biological women's dignity and safety? I would very much like to be able to shop with you again.

I look forward to hearing from to to clarify this important matter.

Regards,

Sweetchilligirl

Why do trans activists ALWAYS talk about genitalia?

We can tell who the men are without any need for anything like this. it is extremely rare for any man to 'pass'.

YABU. All the changing rooms I've ever been to at Marks have been separate cubicles and no specifications of gender anywhere.

It’s not enforceable in practice.

Oh please, making spaces mixed sex to appease men who like to dress as women has everything to do with the fact that more male people are entering what used to be women's single sex spaces.

You can't be so stupid to think there is no correlation between the two things.

Why are you siding with men who don't do consent? The majority of women don't want them there but you think women don't matter.

There is nothing to stop a man - dressed as a man - from using the changing rooms there anyway. I think they may have different changing rooms in the men's department, but nothing to say a woman can't go in there, and vice versa.

Some people really are ridiculous. Including the OP.

Women are not responsible for other women who have modified their bodies to look like men.

Your hatred to women really is showing in every post you write.

Then we have a very serious issue of predatory. men not respecting women's right to single sex spaces.

Not when they are just breezing past you in busy places.

Vast majority not predatory. Feeling entitled above the law, yes. Predatory, likely no.

If a man is entering a space clearly marked female only then in my eyes he is predatory. The good men stay out.

Some risks are unnecessary though. Women should not be at risk from males because some men modify their bodies to make them look like women.

I think it is really offensive to compare this to the risk of childbirth.

Males don't HAVE to go into female single sex spaces.

This is the case I was referencing. When I went looking for it I found the above absolute pick and mix of cases that shows it’s not a one off.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12605169/amp/teenage-girl-raped-bathroom-male-student-skirt-suing.html

Have you seen the “things that never happen have happened” thread on here? You may need a strong cup of tea to get through it.

Men who identify as trans are not the most marginalised at all though.

They are the most cosseted.

They are now pissed off that they have been told that they will no longer receive special treatment. So much so that they decided to go and piss over and deface a statute of Millicent Fawcett, holding placards suggesting they want to kill women who say no to them.

You can not be ‘good person’ for many reasons. Not all of them specify ‘predatory’. People commit many unlawful acts because they feel justified to in many non-predatory ways – stealing because they have no money, using illegal substances because they don’t believe in legislation, illegally protesting because of belief the means justify the aim. Etc etc.

The thing is, those pushing an agenda of hate feel like they’ve “won” but in fact all that will happen is that spaces which were previously male/female will now become unisex. Risk to women has always been from men (NOT trans women). Thanks for linking the article, illustrates nicely how the TERFs have just shot all women in the foot…

Hands. Jawline. Posture. Hips.

(to the tune of Heads, Shoulders, Knees and Toes, naturally.)

The Equality Act applies to the provision of services.

Shops provide services.

HTH.

If a shop discriminates against female people in access to services they can be subject to legal action under the Equality Act.

I don’t need a list of classic ‘tells’. Again - breezing past people in busy places. Vast, vast majority of people won’t notice because they aren’t eyeing other people up. They are thinking about other things and just getting from A to B. There’s also a chasm between suspecting something and being sure of it. There’s a further chasm between being sure enough of something and reporting it. And yet another in that reporting escalating to action against. It’s simply not feasibly practical or likely.

It has to be proportionate and justifiable though, which is where in practice it will like all stop short.

Ok remove the word predatory. You asked how we keep men out of women's spaces. We mark them female only spaces. My husband wouldn't dream of entering a female only space. It's the same principle for all good and decent men. I'm really failing to understand why it needs to be the responsibility of women to police bad male behaviour.

And if Marks and Spences take that course of action I think they can expect their customers to talk with their feet and not go there.

In the light of this judgement I would expect a company that cares about it's female customers to offer 3 options, female for women only, male and unisex.

That would be equality.

Anything else ignores the needs of female people.

I am definitely not a trans activist. However, I do think campaigns like this one don’t do other any favours.

Many retailers have unisex changing areas on the basis that there are individual cubicles. Whether there is a trans women or a biological man in the cubicle next door isn’t really relevant.

It’s hard to escape the feeling that some pro women’s rights campaigners are ideologically opposed to trans people existing at all rather than focused just on protecting female safety.

I don’t ever remember retailers having completely open plan changing rooms and not individual cubicles but there was still a male and female side. What was the point of the 2 sides originally?

On first glance possibly, but unlikely.

On pictures, absolutely. Filters are amazing.

Absolutely any man who enters when he knows women might feel uncomfortable is a predator.