to not understand why Christians think Jesus died for our sins?

[switcheroooo]

If Jesus died for everyone's sins, does that mean people are not accountable for their actions? You can kill people, steal and lie but have a protected status because Jesus died for your sins.

How does this work? Why are people not responsible for their own sins? Where is the justice?

Harking back to my previous comment, I didn't mean it in the same way as this OP. I have peace in life, even even life is uncomfortable and things don't go to plan. I feel fulfilled and have reassurance that I am loved with an everlasting love.

Did the Church become as rich as it is by doing good? Or by exploiting people? Why is the accumulated wealth, which ultimately derives from folllowers donating to the church, not spent on doing more good? Or, is good a finite resource to be hoarded...and to what end? Control is the obvious answer

You keep saying that that god, heaven, hell, day of judgement all exist to people for whom they don't. Why do you do that? Can't you respect their view that they don't exist because they don't believe?

Because there is evidence for an explosion and no evidence for a god.

No one has elaborated any further than he put Jesus on this earth when I have asked what has god actually done, action wise, in more recent times than that.

No one has elaborated on what makes god perfect when his creations are not perfect (that includes this physical planet, not just the human creation).

No one on here can answer these questions in a straightforward manner even though they believe that god is perfect and does good. Everything is always answered by quoting religious texts as if they are proven facts.

I would not believe a scientist saw a little green man running around on Venus singing Bohemian Rhapsody unless he showed proof.

@switcheroooo yes. Jesus is the only way we can follow God's will. Without Jesus we fail, again and again. With Him we succeed.

OK, but as a parent, if your child doesn't respond to the lessons that you've taught them, you keep teaching. You don't just resort to a terrible and permanent punishment.

And if your initial attempt at teaching them doesn't work, you try a different method to help your child understand. You don't just shrug your shoulders and decide to punish them.

I've read the bible from cover to cover. Frankly, it's a terrible teaching tool that helped to persuade me that God wasn't real. Why wouldn't an all-powerful God come up with something that wasn't much more persuasive? And why wouldn't he have a plan B for the people who weren't convinced by the Bible?

A loving parent wouldn't just give up on a child and leave them to their fate. They would keep trying, doing whatever it might take to help the child realise how much they were loved and to bring them back to the right path. I'd have thought that an almighty God might have something a bit better in his toolkit than an old book full of inconsistencies.

So, either he is a bit incompetent or he doesn't care. Or else he isn't real. Take your pick.

Earth is evidence for God. If I said my watch was made when a factory exploded you would, quite rightly, think I was crazy. How can a whole planet with complex ecosystems and plant and animal life have come about from an explosion? Explosions destroy, they don't create.

What are the inconsistencies in the Bible? People are often saying that the Bible has inconsistencies and contradictions, but no one has ever shown me one.

God made the world perfect, people spoiled it. Every Christian has seen God at work on their life, helping them become more like Jesus.

Succeed in what way as opposed to not following a god?

What ways have you become more like Jesus?

More patient, more loving, wanting to pray and read God's word

this will explain the creation on the earth.

I have never been interested enough to look for inconsistenices, as I don't believe any of it. It makes no difference to me if people fo though, and if it gives them purpose and menaing then that's all to the good. But a quick google shows many inconsistencies, so it's surprising that someone who does believe hasn't picked up at least a few. Here's a sample:

The sabbath is often portrayed as a day of rest, yet it was also when people were commanded to cary the ark around Jericho. Somewhat negating it's purpose as a day of rest.

There are contradictions in genesis about the flood, with 8.4 having the ark rested on the mountains of Ararat in the 7th month (the 40 days and 40 nights) but 8.5 not having the mountains visible until the 10th month

There are even inconsistencies around the resurrection; who arrived at the tomb first? Matthew says Mary Magdelene and Mary mother of James; Mark has those two plus Salome, Luke then adds Joanna and John only mentions Mary.

And most importantly for this thread, for atheists and believers, and for the Mumsnet business model in general, proverb 26.4 advises not answering a fool, whereas 26.5 suggets it is better to answer a fool :)

Thats before we come to the glaring factual inaccuracies, with Genesis 1 & 2 have god creating the universe and earth, followed by the creation of humans and creatures over a period of a week. Or is it 6 days, as it took a whole day to create the universe, including earth? Yet there is plenty of geological, astronomical and scientific evidence that proves this to be wrong.

I hope you’ve been demonstrating your patience on this thread 😁

I have explained numerous times that not everything can be explained. I even provided you with a link regarding intuition.

I explained how even scientists cannot explain everything. Doctors cannot explain everything either. Here is just one example of a case where doctors were unable to explain why this woman recovered from cancer so quickly and came back to health despite being terminally ill:

You ignored it and carried on with your usual response.

Has the world ever been perfect? Did people cause earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes?

Without God, we fail. With God we succeed.

I was a christian for years, I never once saw god at work in my life or me become ‘more like jesus’ whatever that means.

Why would I have any issues with believing?

You seem so negative in your posts which is not surprising according to the research I posted I guess.

Maybe you never understood it properly?

Elaborate please, otherwise you are just forming words in to a sentence and anyone can do that.

I am going to ignore your, maybe you just didn’t understand it properly, as that does not merit the respect of a response. In fact I think that response of yours would displease your god as I sense smug pridefulness from you in that.

The fact you say 'i was a Christian ' suggests you no longer consider yourself to be one. Someone who is really saved would never lose their faith permanently. If God didn't work in your life or change you, how did you know you were forgiven? What makes you think you were a Christian but aren't now?

Remarkably, you seem more negative in your responses and closed in your thinking that the atheists on this thread. All of whom are taking the view that you should and can believe if you want to. It does no harm to the non believers. But please extend the same courtsey as they have done to you, and respect their right not to believe, and therefore not be bound by any of the constructs that mean so much to you. Yours is not the only way!!

No there is evidence for how all those complex ecosystems came about. Pretty compelling evidence to the level it’s pretty much considered proof.

the watch analogy doesn’t work. Your belief system requires looking at a flower, disregarding all the evidence about how it came to be and believing someone made it, with no evidence for that whatsoever