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TRAs deface Millicent Fawcett statue

1000 replies

Peony1897 · 19/04/2025 17:16

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/04/19/transgender-activists-deface-millicent-fawcett-statue/

How dare they.

OP posts:
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33
Redorangehaze · 20/04/2025 09:31

GoodAtCookingCrumble · 20/04/2025 09:02

I was there in London yesterday. It was a jubilant but determined atmosphere, with thousands of peaceful people, showing thousands of messages of support and love for the community which has always loved me. A few signs which shouldn't have been there don't take away from that. That's not what the day was about. I'm impressed so many people managed to organise at such short notice. Also very pleased to see so many allies (including me). Not a trans person here, just a proud friend and sister.

Can't seem to get myself bent out of shape over a bit of graffiti, which is easily washed off - especially seen as most of it was chalk!

That event was calling for women and girls to be put at harm through the loss of single sex spaces. It was calling for women and lesbians to lose freedom of association as women and lesbians. I am sure the protestors were jubilant to be calling for these harms to women, but it sure wasn’t a peaceful thing to call for. You don’t get to self identify as peaceful when you are calling for half the population to be put at risk of harm.

TheKeatingFive · 20/04/2025 09:32

GoodAtCookingCrumble · 20/04/2025 09:26

I'm also puzzled as to why you think as a woman that the trans community has always loved you. They show nothing but misogyny and contempt for women. Which was blatantly evident by the placards and chanting yesterday.

They have always loved me. My sign said Dykes for Trans Rights because as a woman who doesn't fit in the boxes, I've known nothing but love from that community. I'm in amongst trans people and gender queer people every weekend and have never felt unsafe or judged. (have felt unsafe and judged by natal women though!)

A chant that kept coming up was 'This is what community looks like'. I didn't see with my own eyes any of these violent signs - and no they shouldn't have been there. The overwhelming majority of chants and signs were just expressing love and support for a vilified group of people. It's no surprise to me that people are angry - wouldn't anyone, when their community is being attacked and made out to be dangerous?

The victim mentality from this post is staggering.

No one is being vilified. The ruling clarified that people will be defined as their biological sex in law, protecting the single sex spaces of women and girls.

What kind of person would be against this?

BabyOrca · 20/04/2025 09:33

I never understood why trans rights activists chose the gay community as their philosophical harbour. Surely the issue here is gender not sexuality, and therefore the feminist community would have been the natural place to turn to, way back when this all started decades ago.

Waitwhat23 · 20/04/2025 09:34

GoodAtCookingCrumble · 20/04/2025 09:26

I'm also puzzled as to why you think as a woman that the trans community has always loved you. They show nothing but misogyny and contempt for women. Which was blatantly evident by the placards and chanting yesterday.

They have always loved me. My sign said Dykes for Trans Rights because as a woman who doesn't fit in the boxes, I've known nothing but love from that community. I'm in amongst trans people and gender queer people every weekend and have never felt unsafe or judged. (have felt unsafe and judged by natal women though!)

A chant that kept coming up was 'This is what community looks like'. I didn't see with my own eyes any of these violent signs - and no they shouldn't have been there. The overwhelming majority of chants and signs were just expressing love and support for a vilified group of people. It's no surprise to me that people are angry - wouldn't anyone, when their community is being attacked and made out to be dangerous?

Ah, the old 'you made me angry - you made me do it' one. Women are to blame for the violence stating in those signs one.

Rules of misogyny -

  1. Women are responsible for what men do.
  2. Women saying no to men is a hate crime.
  1. Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.
  1. Women’s opinions are violence against men, thus male violence against women is justified.
  1. Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.
  1. Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breastfeeding babies deserve punishment.
  1. Women should always be grateful to men for everything.
  1. Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.
  1. Men always know the “real reasons” for everything women do and say.
  1. The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.

  2. Whatever women suffer from, it is worse when it happens to men.

  3. Women’s ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry.

  4. Angry women are crazy. Angry men have trouble expressing themselves.

  5. Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent.

  6. Men are the default human. Women are strange subhuman others.

  7. Everyone owns and controls women’s bodies except the women themselves.

borntobequiet · 20/04/2025 09:35

BabyOrca · 20/04/2025 09:27

They have shown us they don't deal in realities.

So instead of trying to give them realities, eg argue back to "trans women are women", how about just casually being like "that's one perspective". Maybe following on from the SC judgment a good tactic could be to suffocate debate

Except that no debate is their preferred option, because they are not able to articulate their reasoning (such as it is).

Open debate is far better at exposing their untruths and inconsistencies, though I fear that much of the media will continue to give as biased a view as possible. The BBC has already shown its bias clearly in its reporting.

Diverze · 20/04/2025 09:35

Redorangehaze · 20/04/2025 08:25

Why is your gentle, peaceful trans child on this protest in the first place then?

Because that protest is not calling for gentleness and peace.

It is calling for women to be forced to change in front of males, it is calling for women to be forced to see men naked, it is calling for women at support groups to be forced to recount their experience of male sexual violence in front of men, it is calling for women to have to share bedrooms with males in women only accommodation, it is calling for women to have to share prisons with males, it is calling for women and girls to be told they are allowed no boundaries, it is calling for them to ignore their instincts when they feel unsafe or that they are being violated. It is calling for women to be placed at harm to benefit men.

That is not gentle or peaceful. You don’t get a free pass on supporting all that because you help out at a community garden.

There is literally nothing in that judgement to make your child feel scared. If they are scared it’s because they have been listening to the lies of one side. And not listening to the other side. And it was a choice of theirs to do that.

My Ex H was autistic. So I understand well that your child’s iteration of autism MAY mean that the only perspective and experience that exists to them is their own. They may have rigid and inflexible thinking that makes it extremely challenging for them to alter their views or opinions. But you see, those of us who have lived with people with these iterations of autism get really tired of being told how we have to squash and suppress ourselves to support the autistic spouse. We get tired of damaging ourselves to be their human support animals. We know that our partners may lack intention to treat us abusively, but it still feels the same as being abused by someone who has intention.

So sorry, your child is engaging in activism to prevent women being kept safe from real harm. That is not a gentle and peaceful act. Your child does not have to hold a violent placard. By being on that action they are saying women being placed at risk and harm is how society should be.

Popping back in to say, as I made abundantly clear on this thread, we didn't attend, DC is not especially upset by the ruling and does not use female spaces (though has been very quiet this week as a favourite wild area locally has had a housing scheme approved).

The additional extraneous autism sideswipe also noted.

GoodAtCookingCrumble · 20/04/2025 09:38

CamillaMacauley · 20/04/2025 09:30

if you’re a dyke how do you feel about the trans women who also say they’re lesbians and have a female penis and insist they should be able to date and have sex with lesbians. Would you agree that a lesbian who declines to have sex with a biological male is transphobic? Because I think people should be able to choose what biological sex they’re attracted to without being guilt tripped.

I say I don't really care who calls themselves a lesbian. It doesn't make me any less of a lesbian. Doesn't take away from my relationships. People can date who they like - it really makes absolutely no difference to me. Nobody that I know would call someone transphobic for turning someone down, but there's a way to do it. If someone said 'Ew, no, you're trans' or something along that vein then that would be transphobic. In the real world though, it's not something that really comes up because (A) people don't get bent out of shape because they're turned down and (B) people tend to find polite ways of doing it. It's one of these arguments I only ever really come across via the terminally online, so 🤷🏼

IthasYes · 20/04/2025 09:39

Interesting to see what's happening in the labour camp. Is our leader going to come out and help to shore up the rights of half his country??

BabyOrca · 20/04/2025 09:39

GoodAtCookingCrumble · 20/04/2025 09:02

I was there in London yesterday. It was a jubilant but determined atmosphere, with thousands of peaceful people, showing thousands of messages of support and love for the community which has always loved me. A few signs which shouldn't have been there don't take away from that. That's not what the day was about. I'm impressed so many people managed to organise at such short notice. Also very pleased to see so many allies (including me). Not a trans person here, just a proud friend and sister.

Can't seem to get myself bent out of shape over a bit of graffiti, which is easily washed off - especially seen as most of it was chalk!

Jubilant seems an odd vibe for such an occasion.

GoodAtCookingCrumble · 20/04/2025 09:44

BabyOrca · 20/04/2025 09:39

Jubilant seems an odd vibe for such an occasion.

I thought it was odd feeling jubilant too. Maybe that was the wrong word. I suppose that came from being surrounded by people showing support and love. There were picnics, dancing, music, and the sun was out. If nothing else, I hope the community hears that there are thousands of allies and people who support them, no matter what comes next.

Naunet · 20/04/2025 09:46

Transwomen are women...and that's why they're determined to show their absolute hatred of women at every opportunity. Vile, entitled, bullying, misogynistic men, and I have no sympathy for them.

Naunet · 20/04/2025 09:48

GoodAtCookingCrumble · 20/04/2025 09:44

I thought it was odd feeling jubilant too. Maybe that was the wrong word. I suppose that came from being surrounded by people showing support and love. There were picnics, dancing, music, and the sun was out. If nothing else, I hope the community hears that there are thousands of allies and people who support them, no matter what comes next.

And bullying and assualting women. What joy.

BabyOrca · 20/04/2025 09:49

GoodAtCookingCrumble · 20/04/2025 09:44

I thought it was odd feeling jubilant too. Maybe that was the wrong word. I suppose that came from being surrounded by people showing support and love. There were picnics, dancing, music, and the sun was out. If nothing else, I hope the community hears that there are thousands of allies and people who support them, no matter what comes next.

Personally I think that's a low turnout: 20K on a bank holiday weekend in the capital? In contrast, 300K marched for Palestine.

Waitwhat23 · 20/04/2025 09:50

Naunet · 20/04/2025 09:48

And bullying and assualting women. What joy.

Well quite.

'Let's have a lovely picnic while we call for women to be hanged.'

'Ooh, sounds great. Shall I bring the lemonade?'

Brefugee · 20/04/2025 09:50

Diverze · 19/04/2025 23:20

ETA this was written in response to @Brefugee on the previous page, she asked what my point was in posting here. the quotation hasn't copied over. Just to give context. My answer is in good faith.

Many years ago I learned about IC thinking. This is integrative complexity thinking. Research shows that when any group becomes polarised and sees only it's own viewpoint, this increases the risk of violence and conflict (physical and verbal). Low IC thinking is the best predictor of whether a conflict will become violent or resolve peacefully.

I happen to believe that understanding shades of grey and the viewpoint of the other group - even if one disagrees with it - is important in conflict resolution. And I guess I have skin in the game for the peaceful resolution of this conflict. I recognise that third spaces are the most possible way ahead.

I just find the contempt and vilification of both sides very difficult. And yes the TRA side has more violent imagery and threats, but just reading this thread shows that a lot of women have become very contemptuous and no longer see the humanity in ordinary trans people who are not activists.

Anyway I am hanging up my own moderate activist boots. Shall leave you guys to it and avoid the hostility.

https://www.icthinking.psychol.cam.ac.uk/about-ic-thinking

Edited

well thanks for the long reply - funny you then run away so you don't have to hear the challenges to your muddled thinking.

Even as recently as 5 years ago i might have agreed. now? no there is no nuance. TRAs hate us, and use revolting misogynistic violent language towards us. I don't return their words in kind but i hold them in contempt and i no longer believe they are genuine in their support for, or trans-ness. They hate women, and the more cowed and downtrodden they can have us, the better for them.

Nobody can change sex. And you can carry on sitting on the fence (which is pandering to the TRA brigade, tbh) but i will continue to push back on the hate coming women's way.

Micaela64 · 20/04/2025 09:54

Waitwhat23 · 20/04/2025 09:50

Well quite.

'Let's have a lovely picnic while we call for women to be hanged.'

'Ooh, sounds great. Shall I bring the lemonade?'

That was few people out of how many? All you lot do is focus on a few isolated incidents to tar everyone with the same brush. It's what you always do with trans people and what ignorant people have done to minority groups since the beginning of time. It's the oldest trick in the book.

Racists did the same at the BLM protest, focusing on a few extreme signs and not everyone else.

Ilovetowander · 20/04/2025 09:54

The actions yesterday show a lack of respect, whilst I believe they are deluded they are entitled to a peaceful demonstration - their actions show they have no tolerance and respect for others. Their ideology is dangerous and their actions mirror this.

Lark1ane · 20/04/2025 09:55

Naunet · 20/04/2025 09:48

And bullying and assualting women. What joy.

And then they all skipped off into the sunset, proclaiming themselves happy dykes and allies*, picnic baskets in hand, to piss in bottles all over the land.

  • Apart from the anti gay graffiti. 'Twas but chalk they claimed, so that's ok.
OctopusFriend · 20/04/2025 09:57

Yes, nobody should get upset or "bent out of shape" by any graffiti, especially chalk.
I think we should tell that to Jewish people, migrants, Muslims, gypsies, gay people etc
Don't get bent out of shape by offensive threatening graffiti!

BabyOrca · 20/04/2025 09:58

Micaela64 · 20/04/2025 09:54

That was few people out of how many? All you lot do is focus on a few isolated incidents to tar everyone with the same brush. It's what you always do with trans people and what ignorant people have done to minority groups since the beginning of time. It's the oldest trick in the book.

Racists did the same at the BLM protest, focusing on a few extreme signs and not everyone else.

Please don't conflate this issue with racism/BLM, we have been repeatedly told that transracialism is not the same as transgenderism.

CamillaMacauley · 20/04/2025 09:58

GoodAtCookingCrumble · 20/04/2025 09:38

I say I don't really care who calls themselves a lesbian. It doesn't make me any less of a lesbian. Doesn't take away from my relationships. People can date who they like - it really makes absolutely no difference to me. Nobody that I know would call someone transphobic for turning someone down, but there's a way to do it. If someone said 'Ew, no, you're trans' or something along that vein then that would be transphobic. In the real world though, it's not something that really comes up because (A) people don't get bent out of shape because they're turned down and (B) people tend to find polite ways of doing it. It's one of these arguments I only ever really come across via the terminally online, so 🤷🏼

It would not be transphobia for a lesbian to say they don’t date biological men because they’re a man. The fact you think it is is staggering. And insulting to gender critical lesbians.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 20/04/2025 09:59

Waitwhat23 · 20/04/2025 09:50

Well quite.

'Let's have a lovely picnic while we call for women to be hanged.'

'Ooh, sounds great. Shall I bring the lemonade?'

Quite.

CamillaMacauley · 20/04/2025 09:59

Lark1ane · 20/04/2025 09:55

And then they all skipped off into the sunset, proclaiming themselves happy dykes and allies*, picnic baskets in hand, to piss in bottles all over the land.

  • Apart from the anti gay graffiti. 'Twas but chalk they claimed, so that's ok.

Don’t forget they also claimed it was done by someone else who was setting them up!

OctopusFriend · 20/04/2025 10:00

CamillaMacauley · 20/04/2025 09:59

Don’t forget they also claimed it was done by someone else who was setting them up!

😂😂😂
Maybe somebody "bio" 😂

Lark1ane · 20/04/2025 10:01

CamillaMacauley · 20/04/2025 09:59

Don’t forget they also claimed it was done by someone else who was setting them up!

Ah yes!
A big g.c. woman did it and ran away.

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