TRAs deface Millicent Fawcett statue

[Peony1897]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/04/19/transgender-activists-deface-millicent-fawcett-statue/

How dare they.

I’m in the ucu, will look into Affinity. Jo Grady is a waste of space in her day to day job and this just compounds it.

@CleverButScatty
You know trans men are women?

There lies the problem.
It is such a mixed up term now it doesn't help anyone.
Trans people as an umbrella makes far better sense.

Personally I think the way forward now is to stop debating, or wt least that's what I plan to do IRL.
In my head, it's like the SC judgment has settled the matter and it's case closed. That's not to say we stop supporting the groups doing the legal work in the background, but i think now we have this ruling a good tactic would be to (rightly) act like this has now become a non-issue. I just need to figure out a good line for shutting discussion down that way.
Also, I think we should start anchoring TiM and TiW as the new standard terminology.

That's moot point because 70% of those who are in prison are in for that reason.

It doesn't mean that 70% of transwomen are violent or violent offenders but that 70% of those in prison are.

You can't dismiss it just because it doesn't fit your narrative.

What’s TiM???

Yes, why would women be angry about violent, abusive men pissing in the streets? We should just appease them and give them what they want shouldn’t we? Silly women, making men angry by asserting our rights, we should just shut up eh? 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

You lost me at "trans men". Do you mean men who are trans?

20k? Are you sure? It looked way fewer than that and with a much higher proportion of aggressive placards than you pretend. Someone is telling porkies.

@BabyOrca agree continuing the debate prolongs the pandering.
However looking at labours leaked WhatsApp messages it looks like the debate maybe not iced

I was just thinking that this morning. My daughter’s PSHE school content included men on the page which was listing famous feminists.
The lesson briefly covered the Suffragettes, but it was left to me to fill in a lot of the gaps (how younger women campaigned against it, put up those posters portraying the S’s as ‘hags’ etc).
Young women TRAs might re-think some of their opposition if they had been taught properly about this. That’s it’s always been the case that older women usually have lived a life that’s given them valuable experience leading to the ability to think critically.

What do you think about the actual message in the graffiti though? I don’t mean the undertones of scrawling on a specific feminist statue, I mean do you think that was homophobia or what?

im also puzzled as to why you think as a woman that the trans community has always loved you. They show nothing but misogyny and contempt for women. Which was blatantly evident by the placards and chanting yesterday

I don't know. I think there's "bio" and "non bio" like washing powder.

Trans women are trans women and it was probably some far right person who was anti the protest who did the graffiti given it says "fag rights"

The 20000 people on that March disagree with you about women and girls deserving the protection of single sex spaces

I agree. A grown up needs to enter the room and shout "Right! That's ENOUGH!!"

Transwoman (males) prisoners commit violent crimes at the same rates as male prisoners.

But they are twice as likely to have committed sexual crimes as male prisoners.

For non GRC holders trans prisoners in 2023:

• Between 95 and 99 of these are male: this means that between 42% & 44% of male prisoners who ID as trans are sexual offenders. This is a slight reduction on 2022 rates of 49%, but still far in excess of rate of sexual offending for men in prison at 18%.

https://www.womensgrid.org.uk/?p=23626

Because all those 20000 people think women and girls don’t deserve protection from
that ‘tiny minority’.

You'll pull a muscle with all that reaching!

You asked for evidence of the rates of violent crime committed by trans identifying people..

These are the figures for those found guilty of violent and sexual crimes - it’s innocent until proven guilty, remember?

TiM = trans identifying men (aka biological men), TiW = trans identifying woman (aka women).

My logic is: Step 1, we take back control of the language (you'll notice they have a slur [TERF] for us, whereas we use a simple descriptor [TRA]). Step 2, take the SC as the validation we need and so shut down discussion - no more trying to desperately figure out why transracialism is outrageous but being transgender isn't, no more statistics. Just: "yeah, the TRA phase was intense but I'm glad we've moved on to recentring womens rights now" in general discussion and maybe something like "I think we've exhausted avenues of discussion for that niche" when dealing with TRA-ish/captured people.

Basically: we need to change the language we use and take a minimising approach to this now. Just my opinion though!

The Supreme Court did but the children are not taking any notice. It’s a sorry state of affairs; in fact I don’t think it unreasonable to be concerned that some real violence might ensue. Just as in the most dangerous part of leaving an abusive relationship is in the actual leaving, the abusers in this case (and there are many advocating literal violence, as we see) may feel they have nothing left to lose and act on their words. We have seen them verging on this at Let Women Speak events.

Oh of course 🤣🤣

I'm also puzzled as to why you think as a woman that the trans community has always loved you. They show nothing but misogyny and contempt for women. Which was blatantly evident by the placards and chanting yesterday.

They have always loved me. My sign said Dykes for Trans Rights because as a woman who doesn't fit in the boxes, I've known nothing but love from that community. I'm in amongst trans people and gender queer people every weekend and have never felt unsafe or judged. (have felt unsafe and judged by natal women though!)

A chant that kept coming up was 'This is what community looks like'. I didn't see with my own eyes any of these violent signs - and no they shouldn't have been there. The overwhelming majority of chants and signs were just expressing love and support for a vilified group of people. It's no surprise to me that people are angry - wouldn't anyone, when their community is being attacked and made out to be dangerous?

They have shown us they don't deal in realities.

So instead of trying to give them realities, eg argue back to "trans women are women", how about just casually being like "that's one perspective". Maybe following on from the SC judgment a good tactic could be to suffocate debate

if you’re a dyke how do you feel about the trans women who also say they’re lesbians and have a female penis and insist they should be able to date and have sex with lesbians. Would you agree that a lesbian who declines to have sex with a biological male is transphobic? Because I think people should be able to choose what biological sex they’re attracted to without being guilt tripped.