To say no to being a guarantor for SC mum?

[OhYesYouDid0]

Wondering what everyone's thoughts are on this.

My husband has children with his ex partner. I don't have a problem with his ex, we actually get on pretty well and she's a good mum. But I know she struggles with money and being sensible with it, I'm not judging but it's important context to this situation.

She asked recently if DH would meet her for a coffee to discuss something. It turns out she is in a bit of a mess financial and has a large amount of debt. Long story short she is having to leave her current home and downsize but due to poor credit she is having to put down a guarantor on the new property and she has asked that this be DH. She doesn't have much family around other than elderly parents and one brother whom she isn't close to.

DH came home to discuss this with me and I'm at a loss. Honestly I want to say no. We are comfortable financially but there are things we have planned for the next few years that are quite money heavy, an extension on our house, perhaps trying for another child (we have one 5 year old together) and I am reluctant to potentially have those plans put more financial strain on us or have to change completely if she were to need DH to help cover the rent. She assures us it won't come to that but really who knows. She lost her job a couple of years ago (redundancy) and has struggled since then on lower paid ones she says, having taking things on credit she really shouldn't have.

DH is obviously torn as its his children's home but has said he would not agree to anything if I wasn't fully on board.

It's hard, I have absolutely no issue with SC living with us if it helps or being here more often (currently 3 nights per week) but part of me does feel that's where our obligation ends. I am reluctant to put potential strain on my own life, children, finances because of exes money troubles and I want to say no.

WWYD?

Have just re-read, OP. You're unaffected, I think, because your DH wasn't married to his previous partner, so it's only child maintenance that he's paying.

How much has her finances/earning capacity been negatively impacted by being the children’s main caregiver? You say you have them 3 nights a week but is that weekend nights or weekday nights? If you have them on weekends and she is struggling to find and keep a job because of caring for your DPs children during the working week then I think he should help. If not then no it doesn’t make sense.

something to consider though is if you don’t help and you live in an expensive area she might have no option but to move somewhere much cheaper (which depending on where you are could be much farther away). And this will impact your lives in a totally different way.

No way!

It’s not that she may ‘need DH to help cover the rent’. It’s that he would become legally OBLIGED to pay, and all of it if necessary.

He already pays fair maintenance, and looks after the child. Enough!

Especially as it appears that the ex-wife has a poor credit record not due to bad luck or unexpected problems, but through her own financial incompetence.

It’s never been the case that a spouse is liable for the child support of their spouses ex. This is a total and utter myth. It is calculated on the income of the paying parent and that was the case 15 years ago too.

When I split with my ex I did a notice of financial disassociation. I wouldn't be doing this for my own family, let alone someone who is needing to move because of financial difficulties. The risk of being liable for their rent would be too much.
For me, this would be a deal breaker for my relationship.

They are teenagers. Some people will make any excuse for why this woman is so shit with money and try to make out that her ex of 10 years should finance her. If you can’t afford to house yourself and your children then you have to accept that and not beg for handouts.

hello no. End of.

Interesting...The reason that my stepdaughter always gave for not marrying was that her income would have affected the maintenance paid to her partner's ex. (The children from the marriage were adults and the ex never worked.)

Once the SD planned her early retirement, the couple announced their engagement.

Accept that ? And do what ? Find a nice big cardboard box

So:-

£36k unpaid rent
£18k landlord’s solicitors fees, court fees etc
£10k+ of your solicitors fees
£Xk of damage that you didn’t have to pay for but the landlord had to swallow but you could have had to pay
£Yk of further solicitors fees that the landlord had to pay but you could have had to pay

Three questions:-

1. How much would you have had to pay if it had just been a case of your friend having no money? Rather than them being an awful awful person.
2. Do you think the landlord ran up more bills than necessary? Is that why you only had to pay some?
3. Is there any way you can get any of the money back? Presumably not if the “friend” has no money but if they won the Euro millions tonight could you?

Sorry - a lot of this is for my own pure interest but I am a mega fan of putting numbers to everything. It makes things so much clearer. Before your post I was a bit on the fence as to what the Op should do. Now I most definitely am not!

if it were me, I would help her. It's a hand up, not a hand out. It sounds like she wouldn't take the piss.

I'm astonished at the idea of taking the kids full-time and her getting a flat share. That's surely not good for her or the children's mental health.

I would prefer to pay 6 months upfront, with a payment plan for her to pay you back.

Well, do whatever anyone else would do? Approach the council, ask for housing, get a better paid job, move to a cheaper area? Your ex is not financially responsible for you. She would have seen this coming for a long time as well but took no steps to improve her financial position whatsoever.

And by accept it I also mean she then needs to accept that she can’t house her children and let them move to their dad’s. As I asked before, would you be guarantor for an ex so that he can get a 3 bed for the kids to stay at his? Because almost no woman would and would rightly say that it’s his own responsibility and that if he doesn’t have beds for the kids, they don’t stay over at his.

I fall in the no camp. No matter how stable someone may present I would not be willing to be held financially liable for someone else.

I would look into the 6 months rent in advance as others have said. Often letting agents and landlords will see this as a form of security and she should be able to find somewhere. She can then pay back in installments.

That won’t really help. The landlord will want a guarantor for the full length of the tenancy. If you pay 6 months rent, she will get a 6 month tenancy and will be asked to leave after 6 months unless she can stump up another 6 months or gets a guarantor.
Not sure why it’s astonishing that she needs to cut her cloth accordingly. She could ask the council for temporary accommodation but it might be better for the kids to live with their dad full time if she can’t afford to house them.

Absolutely not. There's a reason she is being asked to provide a guarantor, she's a risk. Unless you're happy to pay her rent for an unknown amount of time and any potential legal costs.

Probably easiest if you and your DP had your SC full-time so their DM can be available to maximize her earning potential and pay down her debts? And possibly have some spare time to socialize and maybe meet a new DP, if she doesn't already have one.

I'm sure you would be able to include all the extra responsibilities that caring for an additional two dc entails in your existing 'life plans'.

Which OP has offered so yes this makes sense. Also I bet if the children did move in with their dad full time, the OP and her DH wouldn’t be getting any child support from the mum.

How much is the rent she wants you to guarantee?? If its equal to or lower than what he pays in maintenance I would agree on the basis that he sends maintenance directly to landlord as rent but then pays nothing more.

@Startinganew32 - maybe, maybe not; if the DM earns enough all they have to do is go to the CMS. Not sure what the actual DC want, but needs must and all that. The most important thing is that they have a stable, caring home - and seems OP and her DH can provide that for them - here's hoping anyway.

If anything I would say pay towards her mortgage payments for 6 months or something, it's less risky, she can then use the spare to pay off her debt. But don't be responsible for her finances

Noooo!!!!!! She has already proven that she is irresponsible with money. People who have been irresponsible with money when it’s their own financial security on the line, don’t suddenly become responsible with money when it’s someone else’s financial security on the line. I am baffled by all the people saying it’s your DHs responsibility to provide a home for his children. It is also their mother’s responsibility to provide a home for them, and she has jeopardised their home by being irresponsible with money. If he does this for her she will continue to buy things on credit and you’ll be left having to bail her out repeatedly. It will completely fuck over their coparenting relationship as you will end up resenting her. She needs to take responsibility for herself and her children.

Why is the mum OP’s responsibility?

What other problems do you want to place on step-mums’ shoulders?

World peace?

The war in Ukraine?

Under the old child support agency the spouse was never directly liable for the maintenance, that’s true. But l know personally of quite a few instances where the CSA decided that where the spouse earned more than the paying parent, they could be expected to pay more towards housing costs so the paying spouse could pay higher maintenance. Not sure if this is still the case under CMS but it certainly happened in the past.

I would not sign to be a guarantor for anybody, it's not worth it. Just say no.