To not allow random child to my destination wedding?

[SmithyCakeJun]

Getting married in Malta in 2 weeks time. Dream wedding in a gorgeous hotel where me and my fiancé had our first holiday. My family aren’t well off so we’ve been supporting some of them to come, so costs added up quickly. Overall, it’s only going to be a small wedding with close family, and 2 very close friends on each side present.

My best friend, I will call her Julia, has recently had a family situation arise and has taken temporary foster care of her niece Louise, who is 13. Louise has had a huge trauma and has been drinking (very badly to the point of hospitalisation and Julia had to get rid of all alcohol in the house in order to take in Louise) and self-harming. She was taken in by Julia after a suicide attempt which involved drinking and a paracetamol overdose.

Julia has today text me saying “I assume it’s okay that I bring Louise? She will stay in my twin room and I don’t mind paying for the flights and her meals. I think the holiday will really do her good x”

I don’t really want a random girl at my wedding. I’m sympathetic to her situation but there’s literally going to be about 12 people there. Louise is nothing to do with me. We will have booze available at the wedding in the style of an all-inclusive buffet where you get your glass and fill-up yourself at the machine. Julia is lovely but likes a drink and I can see her having a few and not supervising Louise properly. I don’t want my wedding interrupted by Louise becoming drunk and I don’t want to deal with the anxiety of this girl’s presence when I’m trying to enjoy my wedding reception. Louise has also been separated from a toddler sister and is very devastated about this, there will be a toddler girl present at the wedding on the same dinner table that Julia and Louise would be sitting and I’m concerned this is going to upset her.

I didn’t want to sound like a cow so I responded “Are social services okay with you taking Louise out of the country?” hoping that this would change her mind but she replied back that she’s already cleared it with them and that Louise’s social worker is actually encouraging it as being good for Louise’s mental health. It’s not a formal foster arrangement yet so Julia is allowed to bring Louise on holiday with parent’s permission that she has already got. Julia also sent texts about how Louise has never been on a plane before and is really excited and has perked up at the thought of a holiday with her auntie.

I don’t know how to respond to my friend without seeming like a bitch. I am aware that if Louise can’t come then Julia is likely to not come. AIBU?

She asked first as if it was a 'no' from SS, the decision was made and there was no point asking OP. What's difficult to understand about that?

There's no way I'd chance my wedding being derailed by a troubled teenager who I didn't even know. It also throws off the whole dynamic of this very small, close group. It's YOUR and your partner's day and you've paid a lot for it. You have every right to say no and I definitely think you should.

If you feel bad now, just imagine how you'd feel if you gave in and the girl caused drama or other problems? I think it's not unlikely that she would (and even if not, it's too small and expensive to be able to accommodate a troubled kid who you don't even know!)

I'd message/text her back (rather than telling verbally, where you can get caught not knowing what to say).

"I'm sorry but no, she can't come. Unfortunately, an extra person would justifiably cause upset with those who have already been told no on that. I hope you can still make it, though. Sorry."

If she questions you, that would be further pushiness on her part so then don't worry about being overly polite to her. And just don't discuss it in any depth. If she pushes, maybe just kind of repeat yourself, like, "I'm sorry but I can't allow any extra people, nor can I get into private conversations I've had with others. I hope you can still attend, though. Sorry."

It'll just be up to her to come by herself or not come at all. I'd do it right away and keep the discussion to a bare minimum. You're giving her a social excuse, that's all. She doesn't have any business trying to dig into your reasons or argue so I would not play that game at all, if she tries it. Good luck.

@SmithyCakeJun - could you be blunt with Julia:

Julia - you may not be aware, but the reception will have serve-yourself alcohol readily and freely available, and I am not sure this is a situation that would be good for Louise. It would, at a minimum, mean that she needed to be constantly supervised by a sober adult, and it might be best for her not to attend the reception at all. To be honest, I would be worrying about Louise all day, and that would put a lot of stress on my wedding day. In any other circumstances I’d be happy for Louise to come, but in this particular instance, I don’t think it would be appropriate. I am sorry.

I’m not suspicious of her motives in taking in the child. I think it’s a wonderful thing to do and the world would be a better place if more people did similar. But that’s not the issue. OP isn’t saying don’t bring the child because it’s my destination wedding. She’s saying don’t bring the child because given the recent history, there’s a distinct possibility that her presence alongside easily available alcohol has the potential to wreck my wedding. Two different things.

Given poor Louise’s issues, this doesn’t sound like the great holiday for her at all and I wonder if social services know the extent of her drinking and that this is a wedding, where people will spend a lot of time drinking and talking. I should imagine she might get bored, at the very least and at worst cause a scene. You’ve already expressed uncertainty about your friend’s ability to keep her out of trouble, so this is very difficult indeed. If you decide to allow her to go I wonder if you could have a really good chat about your misgivings? I feel your friend is being a little naive about how this might pan out.

While I may find adult only weddings weird (and there seem to be lots of them), at the end of the day it’s their wedding, it should go exactly as the couple sees fit.

But the OP has not created the situation and it’s not her problem to resolve?

The point was calling the request manipulative. It makes no sense not to clear it with social services first.

If Julia is a very good friend then I think you need to be able to have a very very honest chat with her. That means spelling out your concerns- what is her plan if Louise tries to get alcohol at the reception and becomes upset and drunk? it also means that Julia has to stay sober because there is noone else to supervise her.

If Julia is serious about this then she will have considered these things. If she gets angry/defensive and ignores the potential risks then she isnt as close a friend as you think. Nor is she a suitable person to be fostering a child with such vulnerabilities. Part of taking on the role of foster mother is risk assessing situations like this and if she hasnt, then thats very concerning. She needs to have a plan in place for situations like this. If she does, then I'd feel much more comfortable inviting her

I think this sounds like a really good compromise. I doubt Julia would want Louise around the alcohol in the evening anyway.

I think your friend has been a CF by assuming it's fine to bring Louise and by telling Louise she can come.

This means if you say no, Louise is going to be devastated. I also think by not immediately saying that you'd have to think about it or weren't sure, but by asking if it was OK with SS that you have indicated it will be fine.

Frankly unless you're prepared to lose your friendship, you're obliged to accept Louise. Put boundaries round it and say Julia can't drink and must ensure Louise doesn't either.

Nothing - I understand that completely. But what excuse is there for her telling the child she would be going on a ‘holiday with auntie’ before she had even mentioned it to OP ? That’s shameless manipulation, deliberately putting OP in a situation where it will be very difficult to say no. I’d find that difficult to forgive. And what proof is there that social services have agreed ? They made Julia clear the house of alcohol before taking her in - why would they allow a minor who has recently been hospitalised for alcohol and drug abuse to travel abroad to a wedding where they know there will be easy access to drink ? At the very least they would be insisting on suitable travel insurance and if OP is even thinking of saying yes, she should be doing the same. The child will be part of OP’s wedding party and if I were her I would want to know whether that confers any liability on her if things go wrong. It’s not just a simple matter of whether the child should go or not, there are serious practical issues that can’t be ignored.

I think your friend has been very unfair to ask this of you. She knows what kind of wedding you wanted and she had no right to ask if it was okay to bring her. I'd be prepared to not have my friend there than have to be on guard in case things went wrong.

The worst thing is that she told the child she could go - now she will have to deal with the aftermath of a broken promise. It's really shocking behaviour on her part.

Op I don't think you can say No without hurting Julia.
I think your partner has come up with a fair compromise.

I think I'd welcome the child but remind Julia that the drink is help yourself she might want to keep a close eye on her.

I agree with the compromise idea too where she misses the reception. I think it won’t sound bad if you explain it the right way: “I’d absolutely love you both to come. Fiancé and I have talked it through and our only worry is the evening reception as it’s got an open bar and we don’t think it would be fair to anyone for L to be exposed to that situation. I’d hate for her to be upset and would worry about you both the whole time! How would you feel either getting a sitter for L for the evening part or maybe you guys could do your own thing for just that bit? We’d love to see you both for everything else and we’ve got a pool day planned for the next day so we’d still have plenty of time to catch with you there!”

Do you think Julia may be open to something like that maybe?

I disagree. She should have cleared it with the bride and groom first! It’s their wedding. Then if they said yes, then ask Social Services rather than the other way round.

The OP should never have been put in this position. At best it’s incredibly thoughtless and selfish, at worst it’s friendship ending. Have a happy wedding eh?!

It's OP's wedding. A very, very brief period of time where, yes, it's about the Op and her partner for a day. That doesn't make her a bad person.

Ok given your recent updates I've changed my mind:

Julia, I know why you can't leave her and I hope you know how much I admire you for being there for her. But - and this is absolutely shit - these two things are not compatible, precisely because she's so vulnerable. Too much could go wrong. Even if you were to not drink and watch her every second, it's very likely that something - maybe the toddler on her table, maybe alcohol, maybe just simple overwhelm - will trigger her and she will meltdown. This day is just too important to me, to future DH and everyone else there to risk it. It's likely to be the last significant day we all spend together.

It's absolutely awful, and I will miss your presence more than I can say, but I think we both have to accept that you won't be there. Sometimes shit things happen and this is one of those times.

And then - if you're financially able - I would offer to cover what she's paid out.

If she tries to guilt you with having raised Louise's hopes, don't go heavily on the attack (although you'd be within your rights to do so). Just say - I know, it's awful, if only we'd been able to talk about it first.

Or: I know she wants to come, but she's too young to understand the implications of ruining someone's wedding day. This is one of those times that we have to be the adult in the room, as hard as it is.

ie whenever you mean 'you', say 'we'.

So truthfully neither you nor your fiancé want this girl at your wedding. And I don’t think anyone can blame you for that.
But there is your answer.

Your friend is a shit for putting you in this position.

If this thread has taught me anything, it’s that a good percentage of mumsnet users are virtue signaling nutters.

Has she even mentioned the wedding part, as in your OP you don’t say if she has assumed Louise can come to the wedding? If she hasn’t said anything in regards to that you could play dumb and say ‘are you sure Louise will be ok staying at the hotel for the day on her own? I totally understand if you need to leave the reception early to get back to her.’

Ultimately it’s up to you, the wedding is one part, the rest is a holiday that really might do the child some good. I would have a chat with her and is she sure given that she’ll be supervising and unable to drink. I would make that clear that it will be on her. She’ll have to stick by her side for the wedding but I doubt she’s gone into this arrangement with her eyes closed.

This is so tricky. I suppose the key question is whether Louise has anywhere else to go where she feels safe and supported?
(adoptive parent so I do understand the bigger picture and impact of trauma/transitions). I think your friend is being a bit naive, and I don’t think you’re being unkind to worry about this situation.
If she was to come you’d have to be very clear to Julia about your concerns and her responsibilities. For example if it was me in that situation I wouldn’t drink and would expect to possibly cut my evening short etc.

The friend can take the girl on holiday another time then?

Julia can still take Louise on holiday even if they are not going to a wedding. It sounds like it would be far better without the temptation of alcohol for Louise. YANBU not to want a random at a small and intimate wedding.

I don’t want to be on tenterhooks

Regardless of whether there's an incident or not, you're going to spend your wedding day thinking about, focused on and worrying about this girl and whether there will be an incident (of any kind). And that will spoil your wedding day for you. You won't be able to relax and enjoy your day.

Louise might get through the day without incident, but the fact there is a chance that an something might happen will cast a cloud over your day. And that's not fair on you, your OH and your families.

There are a range of reasons why it's not suitable for Louise to attend your wedding. And you clearly don't want her there. The only issue you have is telling your friend that Louise isn't invited, and you feel guilty about saying no.

But if you say yes, your day will be spoilt regardless of how it pans out, just because of the worry.