To think you should never cohabit with a man unless he’s paying the majority of the bills?

[ThisSereneSnail]

Split finances = split energy.

No, but many do.

Many also go grey and get wrinkles as they age.

If a relationship is built on old fashioned expectations of what is acceptable for women, one runs the risk of being replaced by a more ‘feminine’ model down the line.

Good for you doing menopause, right. Hope describing those that don’t as hormonal, ragey messes sits well with you.

This Is very easy to say - and stick by - when you have had children naturally. It’s what I said. But then we couldn’t have children naturally; I didn’t want children “more than anything” but we still did IVF. It seems very shortsighted and lacking in self-awareness to declare what you would have done in circumstances that have never arisen.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Exactly as you say.

I can't believe a self- respecting woman would waffle on about wanting financial leadership and protection from a man in these days..And then double-back and say there's nothing gendered about it.Has to be a man guaging our response.

All the crud about showing up for emotional check-ins, checking the fridge, making appointments, it's just cringe-worthy. I'm sure my mum didn't feel responsible for using feminine energy, emotional check-ins and making corrective conversations blah blah blah. It's just bollocks.

I too suspect OP is a man, or at the very least a deliberately goady woman. I don’t believe they are a woman with experience of long term committed relationships with men.

Both should pay according to their means and split the “wife” work such that both have free amounts of spare time. In our house it means I pay more and he does most of the “wife” work.

It all sounds very AI generated corporate speak nonsense. Imagine the wedding vows if the OP ever found themselves in the position of getting married (I won’t hold my breath).

Thank you for the assumption you know my circumstances.

We have had losses. We were told that there was a high chance we couldn't conceive naturally. At no point did either of us change our minds on IVF. We came to a point where we decided we would not "try" and began planning our lives as "child free". DD was a huge surprise to us.

Some people know what they feel about things. I also have many friends that went through it, so I have witnessed the journey. I knew I didn't want that. That's not lacking in self awareness. That's just knowing yourself.

Why refer to it as "wife" work and not simply "house" work?

“Wifework” refers to the traditionally female jobs around the house- cleaning, cooking, washing, ironing etc.

those jobs that women are socially conditioned to care about and tend to take on because of that. A woman will feel judged if her house isn’t tidy, a man less likely to.

there are jobs around the house that are seen as male- taking the bins out, diy, mowing the lawn etc.

We are wifeing and husbanding wrong then.

I think I have enough "masculine energy" to have been the major breadwinner in earlier years, when DH had a baby business. When we had DC, the balance tilted but my economic contribution remained significant. Now we are nearly 70, I continue to lead the financial planning, because I am actively interested.

I don't think the pp is saying this way of doing things is correct, just establishing that there is social conditioning to accept this.

yep using “housework” suggests that it’s a neutral task.

when we all know the reality is much of it will be designated, consciously or subconsciously, to the female because that’s how we’ve been conditioned.

I know the “housework” should be a 50:50 effort. However I am also aware that if the house isn’t a certain standard if anyone is judging it will be me they judge, not DH.

i can leave the garden to become overgrown and unruly and that doesn’t stress me as much as the house- and I know that’s because visitors will see the garden as dh not pulling his weight, the house as me not doing so.

and yes, I know it is wrong and it’s not my issue but until things change that’s how it is. As a society it’s still women who give up paid jobs to take on the Wifework- it’s rare a man does.

it’s the old “men don’t see dirt” thing. They do, it just doesn’t occur to them to deal with it because it’s not their job.

I use “Wifework” to remind myself it’s sexist reasoning and it isn’t my sole responsibility purely because I’m female. It should be “housework”, but it isn’t, not yet.

I use housework so my DD never hears of it as being the job of the wife, just the job of the household. As did my parents.

Model what you want your kids to grow up with.

You absolutely don’t know what you would do in circumstances that didn’t arise. I know many, many people who “make” the decision not to go for IVF and change their mind.

You’re right I don’t know your circumstances, but I also do know a lot of people who claim to have a miracle baby but in reality have no realistic idea of what struggling to conceive really is - just didn’t happen how they’d hoped.

Not saying this is you, but absolutely saying you cannot say what you would have done in circumstances that didn’t arise - your childless state continuing. You can change your mind. And so it’s silly to state with certainty something you cannot know as such.

It is a marriage. I love DH. Islamically I am entitled to certain things. I have the right as per my religion (that my and my husband both choose to follow) to be provided for. I love it

I can say, because we were not far off the age where children don't happen. So I know what I said I'd do and I know what I did.

You can't say what you'd do in different circumstances. I know myself well enough that in many circumstances I can say that. Many people can.

In these circumstances, I knew that I would be ok with never having a child. I never felt like that was something I needed to complete me, so I therefore knew I wouldn't do IVF because I didn't want to do it. I I know I don't want to do something, that means I wouldn't ever commit to it enough to see it through.

Some people are secure enough in themselves to know what they are and are not willing to do. I'm sorry you think that makes someone silly, you clearly don't know yourself well enough.

I'm sure your inbox is bursting at the seams with date proposals from men all over the world.
NOT.

This is how I feel too.

Children were never a must have for me and DH and I agreed early on as we were older when we started TTC that IVF wouldn't be an option for us because it is very invasive and we could live a good childfree life.

It’s not really if fundamentally you don’t agree with it, which some don’t.

I still disagree - principles of all sorts can go by the board for many reasons. Also the PP said it was about the physical and emotional toll. The cost benefit analysis where that is the case can easily change over time

I said I knew I didn't want to go through that, the physical and emotional toll being something I wasn't willing to go through for something I was happy to go without.

Like I said, some people know what they will and won't do, for what.

Exactly. I love my DD and I'm over the moon she's here. But I know our life without children would have been a happy one too (so far as we can control), because we didn't feel like we needed children to complete our lives.

No, I don’t think they do, immutably. But you believe in your black and white world if it makes you feel better

My world is not black and white. I just know how I am and I know I'm not the only person. It won't have been like that for you, but it will have been for other people, as noted by another PP on this thread.

Believe it or not, we're all different. Some people can make and stick to decisions and never change their mind. Others make decisions but as they evolve as people, change those decisions. Both are completely true and completely valid.

I'm sorry you can't open your mind enough to understand that the way you work isn't the same for everyone else.