To have made ex bring DC home?

[KimodoDragon]

NC for this. Apologies, it’s long.

Ex and I have 2 DC, he left shortly after youngest was born. The split has been acrimonious. We live in very close proximity to my former in laws, so see them out and about occasionally. DD has a close relationship with all of them, sees them all the time and has grown up visiting their homes etc.

My DD is 4. Since I split with her dad, whenever we pass ex-BIL in the street, he flat out ignores her. He was on the pavement approaching us once and turned his whole body away from her to avoid acknowledging us. She will call after him more than once and he’ll ignore her, because she’s with me. This has led to tears from her on multiple occasions.

I get that this is because he has a problem with me, but I’m not the one being hurt by this. I’ve told her that her uncle has problems that mean he’s too scared to speak to people outside of his house, as I didn’t want to drag her into adult situations.

I’ve spoken to my ex about this so many times, and he refuses to acknowledge there’s a problem. So in the end I told him that his brother needs to choose, either he has a relationship with DC or he doesn’t, but this is upsetting and confusing for them. She just sees it as her uncle not speaking to her and it makes her cry.

Back to today - I asked ex if he wanted to spend the bank holiday with DC. He said yes, came to collect them and then took them to his brother’s. After they’d gone I got so angry with this whole situation I texted to ask him to either give me a solution to this problem or bring DC back (it’s technically my time with them today). 10 mins later he’s at the door, pounding on it aggressively while DD is crying in his arms. He dropped DC in the house, told me I’m a twat and left. He’s since text me saying I’m a nasty little twat, telling me to fuck off, etc etc. I said he should be sticking up for his children, that means not just passively standing by while someone willingly upsets them.

WWYD here? I can’t just stand by and let my DC be all happy and close with someone who tomorrow could be upsetting them and making them cry again. AIBU?

But you can’t control how he behaves when he did what you wanted twice.

1. he took the dc for the day
2. he returned dc when you told him to.

This messed up his day and confused and upset your children. Yes his brother is behaving stupidly but again you’ve no control over that. In your shoes I’d speak first to BIL if you see him out. Morning Jim, nice day. If he acts oddly just say to dc Uncle Jim didn’t hear us and carry on. You can’t control other people’s actions, only your own.

I just feel sorry for the DD being brought up in this total mess.

It’s her job to explain things which are confusing or upsetting which happen when she is there. The ex should speak to his brother, but actually we don’t know he hasn’t tried, just that it hasn’t worked. How can the ex explain something that only happens when he isn’t there?
As I’ve said, the uncle is a bit of a twat - I’m not excusing him. And the ex shouldn’t have sworn when the DD was there. But the OP has some responsibility here too.

Similar to what I said re non speaking uncle. Honestly, op has made it a bigger deal than it ever was necessary. Leave real conflicts to when your dd is 13/16/18 when you will need to sit her down and explain! She is only 4!

OP has said that he does just ignore her DD when she is with her. That doesn't make it right to ignore a child who is calling your name and crying at not being answered.

OP has said that she has never had any sort of relationship with her ex-BIL, even when she and her ex-DH were together. She says:

'Ex left me with a newborn and has since been financially and emotionally abusive. He had problems with women, drugs and gambling. Whatever BIL’s issue is with me, it comes from my ex and his mum as I’ve had zero communication with BIL since we split.'

Her BIL obviously strongly dislikes OP and thinks that makes it OK to take it out on her DD. I think that makes him an arsehole.

I’d be interested to know how uncle knobhead is justifying his behaviour to your dd when he sees her with her dad. Presumably he doesn’t ignore her then.

You are ignoring all the people explaining why what you did was not good.

Ex bil is being awful. However yabu in this instance and child was upset because you changed the plans. If i was your ex I wouldn't have brought her back until the originally agreed time.

Everyone apart from DD seems to be a bit of an arsehole. Sadly it will be the little girl suffering.

I don’t think what I did was good. I agree with a lot of what’s being said. But I posted on here for a discussion. I’m taking all the opinions on board.

I really wish adults would grow up and stop damaging their dc due to their own arguments and related emotions.

You acted childish in anger to punish your ex. You want to hurt him and his family because your hurt. You used dd as a weapon to do this. There is no other explanation.

I have seen the best co parenting relationship through watching one of my friends with her ex. They spend time together as a family and include the exs new partner. They work wonderfully together and don’t argue. The positive impact on the dc is evident.

No matter what the back story, as adults you choose to have dc with this person and it’s your responsibility to put your feelings aside and get along.

I think you have made a big deal about bil issue because it is an outlet to your own emotions. You have made it a focus as that’s easier than reflecting on the real issues. I can’t believe you see bil that much. I don’t even see my direct neighbour that often.

Grow up. Poor dd.

Could it actually be feelings of guilt rather than dislike? Could he feel badly about the way his brother has treated you but is too cowardly or embarrassed to speak to you? I know, that's probably clutching at straws.

As far as you speaking about this to your DD, I suppose it would depend on her level of understanding. But there's no need for long wordy explanations that involve the negative things surrounding your divorce or that vilify her uncle.

Would she understand if you told her that her uncle doesn't want to speak to you rather than not wanting to speak to her? If she questions, you simply say (sadly) "I don't know why, sweetie". Then brightly say "Oh look at that dog/bird/flower/interesting object over there!" and distract her. I found that distraction (and ice cream) usually worked with my DC in 'uncomfortable situations'.

If DD asks why and all else fails, tell her to ask her daddy.

I'd start quietly filming what happens when you run into BIL and how your daughter responds when he ignores her. Get a few interactions on video. Then show him.

I would just communicate the fact that your ex BIL doesn’t stop to talk because of you not her, I’m sure you can come up with a child friendly version of the truth. I’m surprised she hasn’t asked her uncle herself.

i took a photo of her balling her eyes out once when it happened because ex kept telling me I was lying. It had zero effect.

Ok so I’ve just taken some of the advice on here, she asked me why he doesn’t speak to her sometimes. I said it’s because he doesn’t like me, not because she’s done anything wrong.

That was an awful thing to do, your Ex might be a Dick but you don't need to upset your DD to prove that

Never EVER withdraw your child’s contact with her father because of your issues with other adults. It’s incredibly damaging. You need to grow up and stop thinking you can dictate your exs time with his daughter. As long as she’s safe, you can’t and shouldn’t.

You told him to bring her back though

Please never do anything like this again.

You have no control over your BIL’s behaviour. And neither does your child’s father.

But you do have control over your own.

You’ve been badly hurt, badly let down. Don’t let your tiny ones pay the price for that any more than they already have.

When BIL blanks you, play it down, distract and minimise. You can’t stop his reaction to you. But you can control your reaction to him. Which reduces the opportunity for your child to experience a bit more of being the collateral damage in adult disputes.

When her dad takes her out for the day, don’t demand a return to base because you are angry about his incapacity to manage his brother’s coldness to you in public. Let DD be with her dad. She may not have him in her life for all her formative years and young adulthood.

The last thing you’ll want in the longer term is her having any misgivings about how much of a role you may have played in any distance that grows between her and him in the future.

It’s normal to have blurred vision and oversized blinkers when you’ve been body slammed by the other parent emotionally and financially. But fight all you can for the most clear-eyed version of yourself you can manage. For the sake of the smallies who always have to live with their parents’ “heat of the moment” choices. Never getting to make any of their own until they are much older, and potentially far less forgiving than you might immagine.

I don't think you should have asked him to bring your DD home given you agreed she should spend the day with him. The fact your BIL ignores you is a separate issue and if he is happy to ignore a 4 year old simply because he does not like her mum says more about him. I don't think you need to explain to your DC why he ignores her or you simply tell her that he does not like you and it is nothing she has done. Both ex and BIL sound like abusive twats so I would not be giving him or his family any access other than that he is entitled to. Escalating this was a mistake. I would be ignoring the whole exes family if you see them in the street. Presumably moving is out of the question? What about your other child? I thought you said you had 2 DC.

Isn't she upset over your actions today?

Looks like you were the cause of today's upset

Good. I hope that DD was satisfied/accepting of your explanation.

When you're out and about and if it happens again, just repeat the same words. After a few repetitions (and distracting her afterwards) she'll accept it as the status quo. Children are quite adaptable and usually settle into 'it is what it is' much more easily than adults do.

As far as your exH goes, don't bother mentioning it again. This is a situation you will have to manage on your own. He is entitled to take DD to visit whomever he chooses to during 'his time'.