To have made ex bring DC home?

[KimodoDragon]

NC for this. Apologies, it’s long.

Ex and I have 2 DC, he left shortly after youngest was born. The split has been acrimonious. We live in very close proximity to my former in laws, so see them out and about occasionally. DD has a close relationship with all of them, sees them all the time and has grown up visiting their homes etc.

My DD is 4. Since I split with her dad, whenever we pass ex-BIL in the street, he flat out ignores her. He was on the pavement approaching us once and turned his whole body away from her to avoid acknowledging us. She will call after him more than once and he’ll ignore her, because she’s with me. This has led to tears from her on multiple occasions.

I get that this is because he has a problem with me, but I’m not the one being hurt by this. I’ve told her that her uncle has problems that mean he’s too scared to speak to people outside of his house, as I didn’t want to drag her into adult situations.

I’ve spoken to my ex about this so many times, and he refuses to acknowledge there’s a problem. So in the end I told him that his brother needs to choose, either he has a relationship with DC or he doesn’t, but this is upsetting and confusing for them. She just sees it as her uncle not speaking to her and it makes her cry.

Back to today - I asked ex if he wanted to spend the bank holiday with DC. He said yes, came to collect them and then took them to his brother’s. After they’d gone I got so angry with this whole situation I texted to ask him to either give me a solution to this problem or bring DC back (it’s technically my time with them today). 10 mins later he’s at the door, pounding on it aggressively while DD is crying in his arms. He dropped DC in the house, told me I’m a twat and left. He’s since text me saying I’m a nasty little twat, telling me to fuck off, etc etc. I said he should be sticking up for his children, that means not just passively standing by while someone willingly upsets them.

WWYD here? I can’t just stand by and let my DC be all happy and close with someone who tomorrow could be upsetting them and making them cry again. AIBU?

You were in the wrong here. You’ve ended up punishing your daughter. FWIW, I don’t think BIL is your ex’s “problem” to solve. Ex is not accountable for his brother’s behaviour. Perhaps other family members were going to be there today too.
An all or nothing response is rarely a good solution to any problem.
It’s done now but learn from it for next time. If you offer for your ex to spend time with the kids, it’s up to him how he spends that time so long as the kids are safe and cared for.

Yes, this is true. Thanks.

You can’t dictate how he spends his time with her. Would you accept him telling you who you could and couldn’t visit?

Do you see that you are the one in this situation that made your child cry?

If I were you I’d apologise for making him bring the kids home and acknowledge he isn’t responsible for his brothers behaviour. Good coparenting relationships are worth protecting

I wouldn’t take her to spend time with someone who chose to upset her on multiple occasions, no matter who they were.

but no, I will have to just tolerate it, I know.

No, you definitely shouldn't just accept BIL's behaviour which makes your daughter cry. However, you should have spoken to your DH and got his agreement that he would speak to BIL before you asked him if he wanted to spend the Bank Holiday with your DD.

I can't believe that an adult, which I assume your BIL is, thinks it's OK to completely ignore his brother's child who is calling his name. It's childish and cruel.

You married into a toxic family and you need to sort things out without upsetting your DD.

YABU. You have no right to ban him from seeing his brother while DD is in his care.

Would you accept him telling you you couldn't have your mum/sister around your own child? I very much doubt it.

You need to grey rock it. Tolerating it really is still an emotional response. If you pass on the street acknowledge him, ignore the non-response and move on as normal.

I’ve been asking him to talk to him about this for over a year. I’m at the end of my tether, it clearly isn’t getting resolved. I just don’t know what to do, every time I leave the house I’m on edge getting ready to cross the road/distract DD if we see him. It’s minimum a few times a month this happens.

Thanks.

I haven’t banned anything.

Yes you have - you made him bring your DD back early because he was with his brother and you got angry about it.

I totally get the whole situation is upsetting but in this instance, it's your actions that made your DD cry. You need to just ignore the uncle's pettiness - smile, say hello and carry on. No need to do anything else.

What your ex does about his brothers' behaviour is down to him, but don't let it ruin your DD's relationship with her dad, that's not fair.

Her uncle is childish/ sounds pathetic and you shouldn’t accept his behaviour, it needs to be sorted.

YABU though, you’ve caused further upset for your DD and ruined her day. It should have been sorted privately between you and your ex. If it’s been going on for a while then today didn’t need to be the day to sort it out, not when your DD was at her uncles house.

So what is the backstory and why does EXBiL ignore you?

Today didn’t really need to happen.

Perhaps what you need to do is find a way of explaining to your daughter that her uncle is ignoring you, not her. Perhaps the conversation with you EX is that he lets his bother know you’ll not engage in conversation with his brother if he sees your daughter in the street so he can say hello to her without needing to acknowledge you.

It’s shit but it is what it is.

That’s not at all what people are saying - they are saying that your BIL is a childish idiot, but you were also quite problematic today, as was your ex. You are all prioritising your arguments and disagreements over your child’s wellbeing - getting into a huff because others have pointed that out seems like a bit of pattern. You have to acknowledge your role is distressing your child today and figure out how to be grown up about all of this. You can ask your BIL and ex to also behave as adults but you can’t make them. Poor little girl - today sounded incredibly confusing and upsetting.

I think you handled it badly today and should have spoken to him about it when he brought them back not demanded he bring them straight back and causing drama and upset for your dd. P

YANBU in how you feel about your BIL though, he's a wanker. What an embarrassing and childish way for a grown man to behave and really cruel to treat a child like that. Your ex is also a total twat for not caring that his brother is treating his daughter like that.

I don't blame you for wanting to protect your children from them and not wanting your dd to be hurt but you also need to try and do it in a bit of a calmer and more mature way as sadly I don't think your ex and his family are capable of being reasonable.

I have to admit that if an ex BIL of mine ignored me and my children to the extent that my children were upset, they certainly wouldn’t be going to his house to be ignored again, no matter if it’s with their Dad.Nothing outweighs my children’s’ wellbeing.

your ex knows there is an issue - he’s complicit in upsetting your children. Sound deliberate to me.

In your OP you said you told him to bring him back. Which he did. Where’s the option for him to continue having the day with her (other than ignoring your demands, which would have also wound you up presumably?).
His brother sounds a twat and I’m sure your ex has done stuff to upset you too, but in this case he did what you said to do and that’s what upset your DD and your ex.

What you did today was cruel, and to be clear, you're the one that has made your child cry today.

I suspect his brother doesn't speak because he doesn't want to speak to you, it is pathetic but he probably enjoys seeing them when his brother brings them over, and presumably she doesn't have an issue with seeing him- its just you that does.

No, you find a way to explain so your DD doesn’t cry.

You know that BiL is an arse that would rather snub you than greet his niece.

You tell your DD that BiL loves her very much, but doesn’t like talking to people when they are in the street/BiL really doesn’t like mummy.

Your DD will likely ask him about it at some point, and he will have to explain himself to her then.

Your job is t to maximise what arses they are but to minimise the impact on DD.

Practise, because you will need to do a lot of it. If you don’t, then you are no better than the ex who dumped DD while calling you a twat.

I don’t think you can control whether your DD has a relationship with her uncle. I know you have your DDs best interests at heart, but what would be best for her is trying to de-escalate and play down this situation rather than building it up and creating more drama.

He dropped DC in the house, told me I’m a twat and left. He’s since text me saying I’m a nasty little twat, telling me to fuck off, etc etc. I

This all sounds very unhealthy, if not abusive. I think you need to look into communicating on the official apps and block his number.

Sorry, but as much as his abusive language is out of order he has a point here. You are in the wrong here.

Who he sees when dd is with him is his business not yours. You cannot dictate that uncle is not permitted around the kids.

Your BIL is being a dick. But you can't change him. You have given your dd an age appropriate explanation albeit a lie. There is nothing wrong with telling a 4 year old the age appropriate truth.

The brother doesn’t ignore her when she’s with her dad, that’s why it upsets her when she’s with her mum. He’s a childish idiot, obviously, but he won’t have been ignoring the child in this instance.

Hopefully, if OP's mum/sister deliberately ignored OP's DD if they met her in the street with OP's ex-DH, OP would refuse to accept that sort of childish and spiteful behaviour from them.

It is clear that OP's DH is unwilling to tackle this and speak to his brother.

It must be very confusing for OP's DD to be ignored by her uncle and she will probably think that she has done something wrong, even if OP reassures her that she hasn't.