To be devastated by what DS has done or am I over-reacting?

[Acunningruse]

Short version: DS (12yo) sent a message to a family friend’s daughter (call her Lucy) saying “mate I don’t like you so don’t put kisses on messages”
😢 I saw this when doing a random check of his phone, hit the roof and have banned his phone for Easter weekend and given him extra chores.

Long version:
DS (12) has struggled hugely with the transition from a tiny primary to big secondary school. He seems to be trying to be the big I am, the cool guy.

We are involved parents concerned about social media and we check his phone regularly. I am concerned about how he speaks to girls in messages- less respectful than he is with boys. He had a girlfriend for a short while but when they broke up he and his friends were name calling her (a play on her surname, eg her Surname is Bank…) she messaged him asking him to stop and he was unkind. I discovered the messages and made him apologise to her and he lost phone and gaming privileges for a week.

We visited these family friends a few weeks ago and the mum seemed to be “pushing DS and Lucy towards each other. Rather than leaving them to just be, it was “DS and Lucy, you go to the shop together, you both sit here to watch a film…” DS was mortified by this and kept saying afterwards I don’t want Lucy to think I like her in that way.

Lucy text DS yesterday with pictures of their holiday and DS response was “mate I don’t like you so don’t put kisses on messages “

I am hugely upset by this to think he could possibly think this is an acceptable way to speak to someone. Lucy is a very sweet very naive girl (suspect SEN) who would have been devastated to read this. Im hopeful i managed to delete the message before she saw it (no blue ticks) but I can’t be sure. I don’t know if I did the right thing by deleting I just wanted to spare her feelings.

when we confronted DS he just kept saying “I don’t want her to think I like her in that way”. We talked about men and women being friends, you can put kisses in messages and it doesn’t mean anything, but he was not as remorseful as we felt he should have been.

we go on holiday today and this has completely cast a shadow over it for me. Im terrified we are raising some kind of andrew Tate wannabe-despite us being the strictest parents ever around his phone and social media. Not to mention we are going away with friends whose kids will all have their phones so DS will be an absolute nightmare sulking about not having his but we feel we have to do something.

parenting a pre-teen is all new to us (DD is 9) and every other day I feel like we are getting it wrong.

Am I over reacting? under reacting? I haven’t slept in days (sick bug in house) and I just don’t know what to do any more.

@Eveningstart Again, an insult yet total inability to describe what you’re disagreeing with. Absolute knuckle-dragger.

I think this is about you trying to keep the other mum happy and you’ve reacted so badly because you feel embarrassed. You have to relax, there is way too much punishment going on in general. As time goes on and he gets older the only hold you will have over him is that he trusts you and respects your opinion. Don’t throw it away by being draconian. I work in a secondary and we do a lot of restorative stuff, taking his phone etc teaches him nothing except that he needs to hide things from you better.

Firstly, he shouldn't have social media. Secondly, I don't think you're overreacting. It's quite rude and the relentless name calling with an ex girlfriend (basically bullying a girl)... that could one day turn into real emotional abuse when he is an adult (not a definite but these things escalate and become normalised). He needs to be taught some serious boundaries, manners and respect for girls. Quite saddened to see 'his honestly is refreshing messages' - his message to Lucy will be deeply embarrassing/upsetting to her - that isn't refreshing.

One of my DS would probably send a similar message to the op's DS

Same kid who screamed for an ambulance and sat with a teacher who the entire school hated, holding her hand, whilst she was having a fit and the whole class, girls included, filmed it

Same kid who tried to sellotape a snails shell back together

Same kid who messaged my friends DD when her dog died with a (shit, but he tried bless) poem he'd made up about Rainbow Bridge

Same kid who can also a bit unkind at times and get things wrong.

Like absolutely everyone in the world.

So he wanted to make sure a girl got the message that he didn’t like her in “that way” and you’ve punished him by removing his tech.
I think that’s quite an overreaction and pretty much told him his boundaries do not matter.

The message her son sent was rude though. And hurtful. And it's not the first time he's behaved like that. If mum is a people pleaser then she needs to work on that herself. Maybe dad needs to get more involved here in talking to his son about how to navigate communication in a respectful and kind way.

Absolutely this. Why should he accept being pushed together with a girl he isn't interested in, especially at 12. And why have you stood by and watched that happen.

Yes a chat about how it could have been better worded but he had every right to deliver that message to her.

Hey OP, you've had some conflicting opinions on whether two messages are evidence of misogyny and it may be that the context for the second message (to Lucy) has been affected by the first message (to his "ex girlfriend").

I sense in your post that you are worried about how your 12 year old son responds to girls his own age, either as friends or as girlfriends. On this occasion, your feelings are heightened by lack of sleep due to illness in your family. Maybe in a different week, you would have felt differently in your response.

My own experience of parenting a son who is now a young adult was to engage him more in problem solving as he got older. This is a vital tool for any young person to learn but telling him what to do without getting his engagement in why won't always help him as he learns to navigate these situations for himself. Definitely revisit empathy as others have suggested. Maybe an opener would be "How do we resolve this situation now? What do you think you could do and what could I/we (parents) do?" This way you can gather his thoughts, practice critical problem solving and guiding him towards a healthy outcome.

ps when my children misbehaved, as soon as they were in double digits I asked them to think what kind of consequence they should have. They were usually far harsher on themselves that I would have been! But they also felt it was justified rather than imposed and were more likely to get on with the consequence rather than push against it.

Good luck OP. And enjoy your holiday.

He sounds like he’s not a particularly kind child to be honest. It’s not his “boundary setting” that’s the problem, it’s the way he talks to people (girls). His words and tone are intentionally unkind.

I agree with another poster; would your husband be good to have a proper to with him about respect?

FWIW I think you’re doing the right thing. Come down hard now and hopefully he’ll rethink. Too many parents don’t care about manners and kindness anymore, hence they’re getting lost.

The girl didn’t even say anything romantic to him. And with suspected SEN, he was particularly unkind. She was sending a pic of her holiday, hardly crossing ‘boundaries’. He could have ignored her message if he doesn’t want any contact.

Sounds like he’s too young and immature to have a phone.

Haven't RTFT but I think this might not have happened if you had stepped in when Lucy's mother got weird. Not your son's fault if he felt he had to set boundaries because you didn't help him.

Don't be ridiculous
You should of pulled the other mum up for pushing them together
Instead you left your son to sort it out for himself
He's 12 , of course he's not going to manage to sort it to your satisfaction
He's done nothing wrong,he's clocked the situation the other mother created and you ignored and he's nipped it in the bud ...
Or at least he's tried to nip it in the bud ,now you have to speak to the mum and stop her pushing them together

He's still a child. He's still learning how to react to other people and just needs some guidance. We all do.
I really don't think he's turning into an incel. Stop worrying and try to guide him.

I understand why you’re upset. Last year at the end of primary DD2 sent one of the girls in her primary class a message saying she’d never liked her and was glad she was never going to see her again, I got a text off the girls mother. She also lost her phone for that, really unnecessarily mean as they were going to different secondaries so would never have had to interact again. Fine not to like people but not fine to use your phone which I pay for to make others feel like shit. A phone is a privilege not a right, if you can’t be responsible with it then away it goes.

What I will say is don’t lay it on too thick, they’re learning, they’re going to make mistakes. It doesn’t mean the kids are growing up to be bullies or mean girls, it happened, you explained and dealt with it. Don’t let it fester on.

MN never used to have such a low reading age. People don't even finish the OP.

He had a girlfriend for a short while but when they broke up he and his friends were name calling her (a play on her surname, eg her Surname is Bank…) she messaged him asking him to stop and he was unkind

He's already been unkind to girls so that's where you're coming from. I would have told him to not be so rude to her as well, he doesn't get to police the way she talks. Maybe she doesn't give a shit if he likes her or not. He was extremely rude. IME some people use Xxx to finish any text.

I agree and hopefully what I have expressed in previous posts.

STOP EXPECTING CHILDREN TO VIEW THE WORLD THROUGH ADULT EYES

Adults may think she is a sweet, vulnerable girl with possible SEN.
She is not going to be seen as sweet and vulnerable to him. She is just his peer.

This boy has been forced repeatedly to spend time with her.

Had felt mortified.

His father has tried to separate them so the boy is less uncomfortable.

Boy is very worried that Lucy may get the wrong idea.

The mother/OP is a people pleaser and hasn’t spoken to her son about his feelings, despite knowing he is mortified and worried about giving the wrong impression.
She seems to be more concerned that her friend is upset and about sweet Lucy.

The boy then gets a text with kisses and replies with that text.

Cue dramatics about a ruined holiday.

Speak to your son calmly. Tell him it is important that he has recognised his boundaries and really good that he has made it clear. This is perhaps a better way to express… etc.

Another time, it maybe a girl that tells him that she does not think of him that way and does not want kisses or texts - he should acknowledge and respect that politely.

Tell him that it is not acceptable to bully people - girls or boys - and if friendships/relationships breakdown then it is not acceptable to taunt, bully and ridicule that person.
Equally, he should not be on the receiving end.

Tell him that if he doesn’t know how to respond or his instinct is to say something blunt then to perhaps approach you or your DH for advice and you will both help him navigate the situation.

Over reacting and then some! Good grief.
As a pp said, you'll be broken by the time he turns 16 😂
You might be a people pleaser OP but your son has a clear boundary, good on him for putting that in place

We really don’t need to know that level of detail about your son - the other poster was making a point about your parenting, they obviously don’t know (or want to know) the intricacies of your sons experiences.

Being devastated is a massive overreaction as is the level of punishment you’re imposing on your DS.
His message was a tad blunt but at least he’s mature enough to set his own boundaries on someone being foisted upon him.
You should be speaking to the girl’s mother, tell her that your son doesn’t want anything more than treating her dd as an acquaintance. It’s you at fault here, not him ffs!

Ridiculously dramatic over reaction- your poor son.

He’s a 12 year old kid who was being honest if a bit blunt - give the poor boy a break and stop being a drama queen

Massive, massive overreaction. They’re a pair of 12 year olds talking to each other like 12 year olds. The end.

I’m going against the grain. I’m a very gentle parenting parent. I don’t check my kids phones either. We have trust and communication. I don’t punish either. But this? Taking the mick out of a girl after they broke up and then the message to the friend? He’s clearly in with the wrong crowd. Something isn’t right here. I’ve two teenagers, one almost an adult and they would never do this. I’d be concerned about who he is hanging out with here. Rather than punish, you need to get to the bottom of where this attitude is coming from.

Let me guess you have watched Adolescence and now assume a whole generation are like Andrew Tate. Your poor child is being watched like a hawk and his every move picked up.

I don’t see anything wrong with what he has said in that message tbh. Good on him.

have you had a word with her mother and told her to not put your son in an uncomfortable position going forward.

This. DD has at times been unnecessarily mean and she has lost phone privileges for that. At times she imposed boundaries/stopped talking to people that made her uncomfortable/told them she doesn’t like them “that way” and that was fine. A lot of the time she asks for my opinion or how to word things so she’s (painfully) slowly learning how to be tactful, but firm.

I think you should be commended for asking for advice on here and you don't deserve a pile on. I think you're at a crossroads with him where how you manage it is really important.

I think the Lucy thing is slightly separate to the name calling and general disrespect and needs to be treated differently but its good you've noticed the pattern of behaviour as a whole, which I think people are missing on this thread. I would be taking the phone away for nasty messages (end of), giving a stern telling off (with learning) for the difference in respect towards boys and girls element and treating as learning for the tact part (that doesn't mean I wouldn't feel mortified for Lucy and would emphasise this to him).

Even when messaging came in when I was 18 it was a learning curve for me regarding how tone of messaging can be interpreted, and that was through an adult lense (think slightly drunk texts at uni etc!). I think its sad that kids are having to learn this so young now, when they do not have the maturity to do so, or the maturity to cope with being on the receiving end. I do think the way to navigate this bit is probably take more of a learning approach. If he doesn't learn though then he's too young for a phone tbh and I'd remove it.

My DS is a little younger. I'm confident that he will never send a name-calling message to someone (the standards expected of kids these days is very low and I'm sorry but some kids definitely are decent enough not to do this - the fact that 'much worse' things happen or 'most kids' do it are not arguments excusing this IMO and make me eye-roll). However I can see that the 'black and white' thing will also be an issue for my DS and I'm glad you've raised this as its given me something to think about.

ETA parents should be checking the phones of their 12 year olds. In terms of both what they are sending and receiving. My mind won't be changed on this and I'm shocked some don't do this.

How would you know what your kids would do or say if you never checked their phones?