To be devastated by what DS has done or am I over-reacting?

[Acunningruse]

Short version: DS (12yo) sent a message to a family friend’s daughter (call her Lucy) saying “mate I don’t like you so don’t put kisses on messages”
😢 I saw this when doing a random check of his phone, hit the roof and have banned his phone for Easter weekend and given him extra chores.

Long version:
DS (12) has struggled hugely with the transition from a tiny primary to big secondary school. He seems to be trying to be the big I am, the cool guy.

We are involved parents concerned about social media and we check his phone regularly. I am concerned about how he speaks to girls in messages- less respectful than he is with boys. He had a girlfriend for a short while but when they broke up he and his friends were name calling her (a play on her surname, eg her Surname is Bank…) she messaged him asking him to stop and he was unkind. I discovered the messages and made him apologise to her and he lost phone and gaming privileges for a week.

We visited these family friends a few weeks ago and the mum seemed to be “pushing DS and Lucy towards each other. Rather than leaving them to just be, it was “DS and Lucy, you go to the shop together, you both sit here to watch a film…” DS was mortified by this and kept saying afterwards I don’t want Lucy to think I like her in that way.

Lucy text DS yesterday with pictures of their holiday and DS response was “mate I don’t like you so don’t put kisses on messages “

I am hugely upset by this to think he could possibly think this is an acceptable way to speak to someone. Lucy is a very sweet very naive girl (suspect SEN) who would have been devastated to read this. Im hopeful i managed to delete the message before she saw it (no blue ticks) but I can’t be sure. I don’t know if I did the right thing by deleting I just wanted to spare her feelings.

when we confronted DS he just kept saying “I don’t want her to think I like her in that way”. We talked about men and women being friends, you can put kisses in messages and it doesn’t mean anything, but he was not as remorseful as we felt he should have been.

we go on holiday today and this has completely cast a shadow over it for me. Im terrified we are raising some kind of andrew Tate wannabe-despite us being the strictest parents ever around his phone and social media. Not to mention we are going away with friends whose kids will all have their phones so DS will be an absolute nightmare sulking about not having his but we feel we have to do something.

parenting a pre-teen is all new to us (DD is 9) and every other day I feel like we are getting it wrong.

Am I over reacting? under reacting? I haven’t slept in days (sick bug in house) and I just don’t know what to do any more.

That is your opinion. It is not mine.

I don't know how you don't see them as related. He's engaged in bullying of a girl with a group of boys in the past and is continuing to be aggressive with his words.

Yes, teach him how to handle his use of language. But it's the underlying problem that is more important.

Please don't tell me again, I don't understand. My understanding just happens to be different to yours.

I think it is VERY hard to bring up boys to be good men. We've only got to look at the huge amount of complaints about husbands/boyfriends/brothers/fathers on MN, or the amount of sexism / aggression / violence by men in the world. If you want your boy child to be one of the minority of good men, you have to be on top of dealing with issues and not letting them develop.

Good for this mum (and hopefully dad) for being on it.

What rubbish.

@Viviennemary would you care to elaborate?

You overreacted. Kids this age are extremely blunt with each other when messaging - what you need to do is teach him to consider his tone in messages to soften things up.
What he wrote wasn't unkind, he just needed to soften it up a bit

‘Devastated’?! I ask you.

Pretty sure if it was the other way around the girl would have been told she was simply asserting herself. Yes it was a bit clumsily worded but knowing my teens the use of the word 'mate' at the start implies it wasn't meant in a nasty way.

I agree with her.

I wouldn't remove phone and give extra chores. I'd get him to apologise for his arrogant assumption.

The fact that a family friend encourages the children to hang out together doesn't mean her daughter has designs on your son. I hate men who assume a basic level of social interest in them means the interest is sexual. It's arrogant and it demotes women and girls to one purpose only: you are worth nothing if my willy isn't excited by you. He's displaying early signs of that behaviour and I'd want to curb that if I were you.

Explain to him that a walk to the shops or wanting someone to watch a film with when you are stuck with family friends for the day and have limited choice of company your own age doesn't mean she has a crush on him. That some girls put xxx on the end of messages to all their friends. It's not a sign of romantic interest in him. And it's arrogant and demeaning to her to assume it is. He needs to learn that he can be friendly and sociable towards girls he doesn't fancy. They could become good mates.

Poor boy. You have massively over reacted. I feel sorry for him. A simple example of how he could have worded it better to the girl would have done.

No.

Do you think it would be OK for a girl to ask a boy not to put x’s on messages to her, if she didn’t like him in that way and wanted to send a clear message about a boundary? Yes?

then same for boys. It’s very sexist to think boys are not allowed to set boundaries. He was a little blunt but he’s bloody 12. Having taught a lot of 12 year olds I can tell you that most are far blunter, and this not something we would punish or worry about in a school setting.

The first situation, yes, but that’s been dealt with. This is an absolutely massive overreaction and I feel sorry for the boy having his holiday ruined by his mum being such a drama queen.

Fair play to your DS for putting a boundary in place. Why are you so empathetic towards your friend’s daughter but not towards your own son, when your friend was playing matchmaker and making him feel uncomfortable?! Very skewed priorities there…

How dramatic and ridiculous!

This definitely didn't warrant taking his phone. Saying 'I don't like you' was cruel, but should have been dealt with by a conversation explaining that not wanting kisses was fine, but he needed to express that without being cruel. You're there to guide, not punish.

"DS, How would you feel if someone you liked said, out of the blue, that they didn't like you? How could you have put that message less unkindly? How about 'sorry, but I'm not a fan of kisses in texts?"

To give your DS the benefit of the doubt, his message may well have been "You're a friend (mate) but I don't like you in a romantic way so let's not confuse things with x's on our messages" and the issue may be more about his ability to communicate with tact than him being dismissive of a girl "Mate...I don't even like you (laugh emoji)" type thing. If I were you I'd be giving him a hand to navigate these things. First thing, know how unfair it is to allow him to be pushed into a friendship with a girl (or other boy) because of adult convenience, and avoid this in future. Second ask him to discuss with you if he has to send 'awkward' messages, so you can come up with wording that doesnt hurt people. Tell him its important he does this, as if he keeps uosetting people, even by accident, you will have to suspend phone privileges until he learns not to.

Very interesting thread. I would be really upset if my child was messaging a sweet vulnerable person so cruelly especially given the context that his behaviour has generally shifted. This acceptance of children being so mean to each other is really sad.

And maybe even if Lucy just wants to be mates, he doesn’t want to BE her mate. That’s fine too!!!

Why is it dramatic and ridiculous?

Your poor son, you seem both determined that he's a "toxic male" at 12 and also that he's not allowed to express his own boundaries. Completely over the top reaction. Rather than concentrating on your own "devastation", I'd have a serious think about what you are showing and telling your son about how you feel about him.

Sweet vulnerable is how an adult sees the girl not another child of a similar age.
Adults need to stop expecting a child to see the world through adults’ eyes.

Blunt yes, but how was it cruel? He didn't like the girl 'like that' and felt the kisses showed she liked him. He wanted to set her straight. Why is he as a boy not allowed to put boundaries in place?

If a girl was dating this to a boy would it be bad?

As PPs said he is just trying to clumsily create a boundary.

doing not dating!

But not being friends doesn't mean being rude. We all have to rub along with people we don't like. I had this very conversation with my 6 year old son yesterday. It is absolutely not acceptable to be rude to a girl he doesn't like. Just be polite. Doesn't mean they're friends.

I have a DS12 and would also be a bit upset by that message. I would talk to him about how to phrase things better, especially thinking about how they may be received. There is no indication the girl likes him that way. She was just talking about her holiday. I would also tell him in no uncertain terms that men and women are equal and his past horribleness towards the ex girlfriend is completely unacceptable. Boys this age are hugely influenced by friends and social media and i don’t think there’s anything wrong with continually reinforcing gender equality messages.