To be devastated by what DS has done or am I over-reacting?

[Acunningruse]

Short version: DS (12yo) sent a message to a family friend’s daughter (call her Lucy) saying “mate I don’t like you so don’t put kisses on messages”
😢 I saw this when doing a random check of his phone, hit the roof and have banned his phone for Easter weekend and given him extra chores.

Long version:
DS (12) has struggled hugely with the transition from a tiny primary to big secondary school. He seems to be trying to be the big I am, the cool guy.

We are involved parents concerned about social media and we check his phone regularly. I am concerned about how he speaks to girls in messages- less respectful than he is with boys. He had a girlfriend for a short while but when they broke up he and his friends were name calling her (a play on her surname, eg her Surname is Bank…) she messaged him asking him to stop and he was unkind. I discovered the messages and made him apologise to her and he lost phone and gaming privileges for a week.

We visited these family friends a few weeks ago and the mum seemed to be “pushing DS and Lucy towards each other. Rather than leaving them to just be, it was “DS and Lucy, you go to the shop together, you both sit here to watch a film…” DS was mortified by this and kept saying afterwards I don’t want Lucy to think I like her in that way.

Lucy text DS yesterday with pictures of their holiday and DS response was “mate I don’t like you so don’t put kisses on messages “

I am hugely upset by this to think he could possibly think this is an acceptable way to speak to someone. Lucy is a very sweet very naive girl (suspect SEN) who would have been devastated to read this. Im hopeful i managed to delete the message before she saw it (no blue ticks) but I can’t be sure. I don’t know if I did the right thing by deleting I just wanted to spare her feelings.

when we confronted DS he just kept saying “I don’t want her to think I like her in that way”. We talked about men and women being friends, you can put kisses in messages and it doesn’t mean anything, but he was not as remorseful as we felt he should have been.

we go on holiday today and this has completely cast a shadow over it for me. Im terrified we are raising some kind of andrew Tate wannabe-despite us being the strictest parents ever around his phone and social media. Not to mention we are going away with friends whose kids will all have their phones so DS will be an absolute nightmare sulking about not having his but we feel we have to do something.

parenting a pre-teen is all new to us (DD is 9) and every other day I feel like we are getting it wrong.

Am I over reacting? under reacting? I haven’t slept in days (sick bug in house) and I just don’t know what to do any more.

I actually don't think you're over reacting. Misogyny is a massively growing problem with boys.

If it was just the statement about putting kisses at the end of messages, I'd be inclined to just discipline him and explain. But in combination with the mockery of the ex girlfriend, 'he and his friends were name calling her (a play on her surname, eg her Surname is Bank…) she messaged him asking him to stop and he was unkind' ganging up on her and bullying her with his friends, I definitely think something else is going on there.

I actually think your husband/his dad needs to step in and help handle this. It is a big issue with young men at the moment and as much as I'm a feminist and and quite capable of standing up for myself, correcting my son, etc etc, I think men need to help boys deal with this, because it's a male based problem, yes, led by twats like Tate. His father needs to tell him it's not acceptable to treat women (anyone) that way. Definitely not cool and while it might help his friendships with boys at school, that it's bullying and not to fall into that trap, just to stay in with his mates.

I too would have deleted the message, and talked to him about treating people with respect, and respectful words are included in that. If he was genuinely concerned that she had the wrong idea, work on a more polite message together. In the context of his treatment of girls at school, I can see why you are on alert.

Our oldest son is the same age and we are at the same stage. A sensitive, quiet boy from a small village primary now in year 8 at a huge secondary school! We saw a rude message to an 'ex-girlfriend' a while back, and had stern words with him around the concept that everyone has the right to choose who they are friends with, or in a relationship with. And that words matter, even if they're not face to face. That their sexes didn't matter, if he had received the rude message that she had, we would have been furious on his behalf.

A genuine apology was given both in person and on message, and all seems well now. Probably like your son, he was picking up bolshier attitudes than he was used to and trying them out for size. Even the language he used in chatting to his male friends had changed.

We also spent some time (without his knowledge) engineering some more out of school activities, with wholesome sports and peers, and other adults (coaches) with similarly high expectations of behaviour and attitude. That too has helped, as it now isn't just "home where my parents are soooo strict and don't understand the real world" and "the outside world", aka school and bolshy teenagers.

Also sounds like he maybe had a point about being pushed together. Kids having to hang out with the kids of family friends can be tricky enough when they are small but as they get older the dynamic changes. I think adults of tend to miss this and think it’s like encouraging them to hang out together when they’re younger (and of course there’s often the motive here of “please amuse each other so we can get on with our adult conversation”).

Maybe next time he could stay at home? If not, you perhaps should intervene more to make sure he’s not being put in an uncomfortable position.

Regarding the other mum, yes we did put measures in place at the time eg DH took DS out to play football during the weekend to keep him and Lucy apart a bit. Then when the mum and I met up on our own a few weeks later I said it had made DA uncomfortable. She did not take it well tbh- Lycy is also struggling with the transition to secondary school and the mum is extremely anxious about her daughter fitting in as she is such a sweet girl but a bit different. I think that’s why this has struck a nerve so much, it feels like kicking a puppy.

I wouldn't punish him, they all use "mate" nw regardless of gender.
She probably has a crush, he is shutting her down.

It's good you ( hopefully ) deleted the message before it was received , and if taking the phone away from him is your way of suitable punishment , then fair enough .

Yes he needs lessons on being kind , and to learn that actions have consequences but I think this is probably the sort of stuff most kids of his age would do .
He's only 12 , so quite young to be entering the girlfriend/ boyfriend zone and her mother may have scared him off a bit .

If course the mother could have been pushing them together for strictly friendship reasons but he , and maybe you thought differently .

In the next few years he will learn how to navigate himself around girls , and yes , it might not be how you would like him to act , but he is his own person .

I am old enough to have 12 year old grandchildren , and said kindly , some parents ( because the teenage year's are difficult ) don't quite know how to react to their childrens becoming independent of them .

He is on the cusp of growing into an adult , scary for you both , he still needs you , and the guidance , but he knows what he wants and is naturally pulling away a little , we all did it .

Time for the firm but fair approach , he needs to make mistakes so he can learn from them . We can't live our childs lives for them , they have to do that for themselves .

By taking the phone away , you've given him the opportunity to reflect on his actions so that is a good thing.
Sorry for the long post !

Exactly. If we continue ignoring the issue, it will perpetuate and grow.

My thoughts exactly. I was expecting something really inappropriate (rather than clumsily phrased) from your reaction. Your poor son.

Treating girls as precious flowers is just as misogynistic as treating them like crap. The ‘wanker’ joke was mean, but that’s been dealt with. This latest message was a perfectly acceptable statement of boundaries to someone who is trying to flirt with him.

Totally over the top reaction. I can't see what he did wrong.

Tackling misogyny means not combining two unrelated issues. You have to call it out when you see it - the horrible mockery of the ex. But it's unhelpful to conflate it with the second situation, which is asserting a platonic/romantic boundary that everyone, boy or girl, should feel able to do. And which he did not do in a misogynistic way.

Any conversation about misogyny has to focus exclusively on the first situation, not the second.

Spot on.

Sit down with him and talk about it like this. Either suggest he sends a polite message, or speak to her mother yourself. I’ve been tough with both of my DSs over phone use and I had no problem removing their phone for a few days, but this does not sound like it’s a simple case of rudeness or inappropriate use - he is feeling pressured by this other family and you need to step in and put some boundaries in place, particularly with regard to the forthcoming holiday.

It would probably be best to make this the last joint holiday.

I agree that you need to teach home what to say. What did you suggest instead of that message?

It’s sad the girl is struggling but it’s not your DS’s problem. A chat about dealing with things sensitively and the girl being vulnerable — while also showing empathy to how your son felt about this situation — was in order. Not coming down like a ton of bricks.

i think op you need to step away from the internet,

we go on holiday today and this has completely cast a shadow over it for me

I don’t say this lightly
OP you genuinely need some professional help

But he has already been punished for the first thing, so it’s not fair to conflate these two things. It’s not misogynistic to have boundaries.

You are being ridiculous. Can't believe the way you've dealt with this.. Your son is uncomfortable with kisses on messages from a girl and told her to stop. It was a bit unkind of him to add thd I don't like you but he was quite right to tell her to stop the kisses. You need to apologise to him and make it up.

He’s 12! Do you think you ever phrased things a bit clumsily when you were 12? I ghosted someone at 12 as I didn’t know how to deal with breaking up with them. I would never do that as an adult, but I was 12!! Luckily the adults in my life guided me on how to deal with situations better rather than punish me.

Yeah, you're over reacting OP. if taking his phone away from him is going to completely ruin the holiday for him, that's a bit too far. Just explain he could of put it nicer or asked you for help to word it.

Mum of three boys here. Just to add to what has been said above I would rethink the holiday. We only went away with friends who had children who got on with ours. Otherwise it’s a bit selfish IMO.

Just keep modelling good respectful behaviour, talk to him and most importantly listen, don’t shut him down. When one of mine was being a bit Andrew Tatey I listened to him and asked him a few questions to make him think a bit more and also encouraged more hobbies.

Get your husband to talk to him about this stuff too. Really important that he has good male role models who are respectful to women.

The way you dealt with the first incident was perfect. He was being mean and showing off and treating a girl like crap , just because he could , so entirely fair enough and he did deserve a consequence for his actions.

This time though , you over reacted. While it wasn’t particularly nice or tactful, he imposed a boundary and made it clear he has no interest. A conversation about how to word things properly, deleting the message and sending a better one and showing him he can come to you/his dad when he’s not quite sure how to word or deal with certain things would’ve been much better. Education , not punishment.

Disagree. It's a child, showing elements of a wide-scale problem developing under our noses which is currently not being successfully dealt with (I'm no expert in how to deal with it).

For boys to turn into good men though, they need the influence of good men. This child is lucky enough to have a father who will hopefully have more influence over him than the 'cool' boys at school.

Mum is right to be on it.

I completely agree with this. Getting the tone right on text message s is hard- even adults struggle with it. You basically have to take how rude it sounds in your head and then assume that to the other person it will sound 1.5x as rude. It’s a chance for a lesson, not a punishment.

I’m afraid I agree. Totally over the top and unacceptable. He was being blunt but honest. He’s 12, a child, and children word things less gently that some adults at times. But you’ve interfered and overstepped the mark by deleting his messages.
Give him his phone back and talk to him about how he can rephrase it more kindly. Poor lad!