To be devastated by what DS has done or am I over-reacting?

[Acunningruse]

Short version: DS (12yo) sent a message to a family friend’s daughter (call her Lucy) saying “mate I don’t like you so don’t put kisses on messages”
😢 I saw this when doing a random check of his phone, hit the roof and have banned his phone for Easter weekend and given him extra chores.

Long version:
DS (12) has struggled hugely with the transition from a tiny primary to big secondary school. He seems to be trying to be the big I am, the cool guy.

We are involved parents concerned about social media and we check his phone regularly. I am concerned about how he speaks to girls in messages- less respectful than he is with boys. He had a girlfriend for a short while but when they broke up he and his friends were name calling her (a play on her surname, eg her Surname is Bank…) she messaged him asking him to stop and he was unkind. I discovered the messages and made him apologise to her and he lost phone and gaming privileges for a week.

We visited these family friends a few weeks ago and the mum seemed to be “pushing DS and Lucy towards each other. Rather than leaving them to just be, it was “DS and Lucy, you go to the shop together, you both sit here to watch a film…” DS was mortified by this and kept saying afterwards I don’t want Lucy to think I like her in that way.

Lucy text DS yesterday with pictures of their holiday and DS response was “mate I don’t like you so don’t put kisses on messages “

I am hugely upset by this to think he could possibly think this is an acceptable way to speak to someone. Lucy is a very sweet very naive girl (suspect SEN) who would have been devastated to read this. Im hopeful i managed to delete the message before she saw it (no blue ticks) but I can’t be sure. I don’t know if I did the right thing by deleting I just wanted to spare her feelings.

when we confronted DS he just kept saying “I don’t want her to think I like her in that way”. We talked about men and women being friends, you can put kisses in messages and it doesn’t mean anything, but he was not as remorseful as we felt he should have been.

we go on holiday today and this has completely cast a shadow over it for me. Im terrified we are raising some kind of andrew Tate wannabe-despite us being the strictest parents ever around his phone and social media. Not to mention we are going away with friends whose kids will all have their phones so DS will be an absolute nightmare sulking about not having his but we feel we have to do something.

parenting a pre-teen is all new to us (DD is 9) and every other day I feel like we are getting it wrong.

Am I over reacting? under reacting? I haven’t slept in days (sick bug in house) and I just don’t know what to do any more.

The poster was not making a point about my parenting.

I gave that info as an example of where kids can be a bit shit, as well as decent - just overall conversation type things, with this being a forum n all. So there's no need to write any kid off as an Andrew Tate over a few mistakes while they are learning "life"

If you'd read the comments I butted in on then you may have understood that.

I'm glad you deleted the message but I don't think he should be punished, just helped to write a more sensitively worded message.

"I don't like you" can mean at least two things - "I don't fancy you" (which is what he probably meant to say here) and "I don't like you at all, I dislike you." You said Lucy is naive, so she was probably oblivious to any attempted matchmaking and would have interpreted the message the second way, which would have been upsetting. But it would also be rude to leave her message and photos unanswered for ages (as they will be if he can't have his phone back). There are some good suggestions already for what he could say instead. I would have him compose a nicer message as soon as possible so you can relax, knowing he hasn't offended anybody.

I’ve experienced the sweet satisfaction of being asked out by boys who were vile to me earlier in the 80s and letting them know they weren’t my type in 1989. We’re not all fragile little flowers. I wasn’t at 12 or at 18. Don’t like me? That’s OK, I’ll get on with my day.

You’re not just over reacting, you are in the wrong and should apologise to your son. He was setting a boundary, he doesn’t want kisses in txts from her so he told her. The only thing he could have done was put “I don’t like you in that way” instead of a straight I don’t like you but honestly all you’ve done by saying friends can put kisses in txts is undermine his feelings. He doesn’t like it, he doesn’t want it, he doesn’t want her thinking of him like that. I am a girl mum and this is exactly the kind of boundary I will be encouraging my daughters to set with boys (and girls). Your need to people please has caused you to think your son should be a people pleaser, and that’s a big problem. Personally I’m proud your son took it upon himself to set this boundary, and you should really look at why your friends daughters feelings mattered more then your son saying “I don’t like this, please stop”

What’s OP apologising for ? Trying to teach her son that he needs to consider other people’s feelings and not treat women like shit ? He’s engaged in the group bullying of a girl he broke up with. OP says his behaviour has changed and this is not the first worrying message OP has found. It needs nipping in the bud now. She has nothing to apologise for.

misogyny

: hatred of, aversion to, or prejudice against women

I fail to see how I’ve been misogynistic.

the message made him uncomfortable he is allowed to put some boundaries in place. Instead of punishing him why not work with him on different ways he can say no.

I actually don’t think you are being unreasonable OP to be concerned. I think vigilance over teens and their phones is a good thing and more parents should do more of it.
The text to the girl was horrible and not ‘refreshingly honest’. Absolutely fine to want to clear things up, not fine to text it so rudely.
People can’t on the one hand say they are worried by Adolescence and Andrew Tate and on the other that it’s fine for a group of year 7 aged kids to be laughing at changing a girls surname to wank, etc. It’s a continuum. Parents need to call it out- arguably better both together so it’s not just ‘mum/ a female/ being hysterical’

How would you feel if your DD was the target of group bullying by a boy she had broken up with, along with his mates ? There’s no over reaction here. There’s a pattern of behaviour emerging that needs to be dealt with and thankfully OP has recognised it. Of course the boy needs to set his own boundaries, but OP can teach him how to do it respectfully and without being hurtful - that isn’t encouraging him to be a ‘people pleaser’ it’s helping him navigate his way through a difficult and confusing time.

This. He was putting boundaries in place, you don’t have to raise him as a people pleaser, this will only see him walked all over his whole life.

You need to find a hobby or get out more 🤦🏼‍♀️

I mentioned kisses, not fucking. That’s certainly not a conversation I’d be having with a 12 year old.

Why are 12 year olds out there with girlfriends? Why is the other mum pushing something to happen between two 12 year olds?? He is crying out for some help here and you’re blaming Andrew Tate?

Incorrect that is a separate issue. I am not giving advice on that issue I am giving advice on setting boundaries. That issue was handled, the correction and punishment was made. If I was that girls mum I wouldn’t then be annoyed he set a boundary by telling another different girl he doesn’t like her. You can try and link them up all you like, but they are different incidents, different mistakes and different people. “I don’t like you” is not an insult. Changing a girls surname and bullying her is.

Saying 'I don't like you' to someone who has SEN is a bit cruel.

Can I ask why he thinks she liked him 'like that' or why he seemed to think the mum was trying to set them up or something, rather than make sure her daughter had company / a friend? That seems odd to me, that he doesn't seem to get that boys and girls can be genuine friends

If it was about this incident on its own you would be over reacting yes. But bullying his ex girlfriend, and generally speaking to girls in a disrespectful tone is worrying. Although you're right to take some action on his phone so you all have a breather I think you need to think how you approach this in the longer term. Taking away his phone and punishing him won't have the effect of making him have more respect for women. How are you going to achieve this? I think that can only come through talking, particularly from a male. If you're doing all the correcting but his dad is silent it kind of reinforces that girls are different / take things too personally or whatever his thought process is. So get his dad / uncle or someone to regularly speak to him. Also check what he is watching online

There have been 12 year olds with innocent crushes on other 12 year olds long before Andrew Tate was born.

It might not be a conversation, but it’s certainly the underlying message.

I understand your concern. I have a slightly older DS and his bluntness takes my breath away (and I'm blunt!). But I totally agree with others, this age is about them finding themselves, finding their boundaries and feeling very self conscious. DS has friends who are girls out of school (through us) for example, but in school they don't speak.

I think the incident with the other girl and name swapping for something rude - definitely, I would have pulled up DS for that and be clear about kindness and respect.

But you have to pick your battles or else he'll think your micromanaging his responses - and honestly, he'll learn the hard way. Girls just won't want to date him.

That said, your concern about Andrew Tate is probably quite a few steps away. You're a good parent, you care about the boy you're raising and his relationships beyond the family, and he'll be ok.

It didn’t enter my head. How about, don’t piss someone off when they might be your boss one day? Is that better?

Op you are doing all the right things , watching his messages and making him apologise for the first incident. But he is allowed to express a boundary and I think what he did was nip Lucy's expectations in the bud. Its tough for young teens / preteens these days there is so much outside pressure.

Of course it isn’t a separate issue. It’s a pattern emerging alongside a change in behaviour. The message was sent to a girl he’s friends with. ‘Mate l don’t like you’ may not be an insult but to receive that from someone you consider a friend would be devastating.

It sounds like the Mum was hoping they might form a friendship? I think the issue with his message is that it could be interpreted that he doesn't like her at all (i.e. platonically) which is rude. But no, I wouldn't be devastated. Help him to send a better message, don't take his phone away. I would for the name calling but not for this.

Wait a few more years and you’ll have far more problems to deal with. He’s putting boundaries. If the sexes were reversed and it was a girl telling a boy that, people would applaud her. He’s 12 - he’s not as articulate as an adult as he is a child. He’s not feeling comfortable with her putting kisses or leading her on. Good for him.

I dont see anything wrong with what he said to Lucy, he's 12, it was direct and straight to the point. I honestly dont find it rude in the slightest but then I'm a direct person so maybe that why?

I do think its awkward that you and her mother are forcing them to be around each other the way you are. Fair enough if both families hang around together but to force them to actually have alone/social time together when he doesnt particularly like her isnt fair. He is allowed to dislike people.

I think you're overreacting with the andrew tate thing and I think maybe some conversations about how we should be respectful to people etc is needed with your son.

No. Try recognising the misogyny in your original statement.