CIS

[Delivery]

Just read an article about the Supreme Court judgement today. It repeatedly refers to Cis women. I get so unbelievably annoyed by that term.

I am not a ‘Cis’ woman. I just hate the term. If you want to be a trans woman, fine. That’s what you are. Don’t make me the other side of your imaginary coin. Don’t make me call myself something I’m not. Don’t make me part of your ‘We’re all just at various points on the woman spectrum’ nonsense.

There are women. And there are trans women. Two entirely different things.

And this, in a nutsack nutshell, is why so many of us object to the term. (Including you, I know!)

If used about me I simply say I am not cis. If further explanation is needed I say I don't have a female gender identity, but choose to use she/her pronouns. They can't really argue with that, in case it's "transphobic".

You feel like a woman, right? That’s your gender identity, then. You’re also a biological woman.

I agree that cis isn’t really necessary. I guess it adds a bit of clarification. But basically I don’t see why biological women can’t be just called women, and transwomen just called transwomen.

But honestly it’s not something I can get het up over at all. It’s just a descriptor.

Cis is a slur.

I asked DH what he thought transwoman meant, and he said a woman who is now a man. So yes, confusion reigns.

I don't feel like a woman. Except possibly when in the throes of severe period pain, but then I am very painfully aware I am feeling a FEMALE thing in my female body, nothing to do with how I feel as a person.

In some situations I am treated "as a woman" and it always takes me by surprise a bit, as I just see myself as a human (often this is around sexism/men making assumptions about me).

I really wrestled with the fact that I don't "feel like a woman" as a teen and in my early 20s. As I couldn't pin down what the hell that meant, aside from sexist expectations, I eventually stopped pondering it. I have since had so many friends and other women say they felt the same thing at that age, it seems pretty normal.

No. feeling feelings as a woman is not coherent with ‘identifying as a woman’.

One is a state of being and the other requires active processing and analysis against set criteria as a positive action to ‘identify’ as something.

It is more accurate to say ‘I feel like me and I am female/ a woman’. No ‘identifying as a woman’ needed.

Yes, whenever I hear someone use this word I revise my estimation of their IQ down 20 points.

So trans woman means "the opposite of woman" then.

In other words, it means "man".

So what is the definition of 'identify' in this context? Does it mean 'to think that one is something'? I don't 'think' I'm a woman - I just am one.

Does it mean 'to feel like something'? How do I know what it 'feels like' to be a woman? I only know what it feels like to be me. Other women might feel completely different.

I also don't 'feel' specifically 5'6", 53 years old or British. I just am those things.

Cis is meaningless. Some people insist that Imane Khelif is a cis woman because their dsd means they were incorrectly recorded as female at birth. (I have the receipts so the tiresome "no one has ever said that" comments will be pointless if anyone feels the need to make them).

People can use cis if it makes them happy but I will continue to think them ridiculous and not use it myself.

Almost everyone in the world is "non binary", babe.

Because almost nobody except trans people actually identifies with gender, which is regressive made up nonsense.

Everyone in the world, including the 99%+ of the human population who are, according to your definition, "non binary", is in fact binary in the sense that they come in two varieties: male and female.

Male and female are not identities; they are scientific categories.

Surely if you declare yourself as non-binary, you then actually become binary? Non-binary and binary, which is binary. No?

I have those receipts as well. There were plenty of posters on mn declaring that Khelif and Semenya are cis women.

I got to the point of even drawing a diagram because I was posting the same thing over and over after seeing that. Because those insisting cis is harmless and should be accepted don’t seem to understand what it actually means and does.

Yep

Gives me the rage. CIS. Oh purlease. Only CIS I know is accounts , reporting to HMRC our subcontractors deductions. I do know what a woman is.

How you feel is irrelevant to whether you are a woman or a man. These are category words defined by reference to objective criteria, not subjective feelings.

Gender is a load of regressive made up bollocks. It is what generations of real feminists have been fighting against. Why on earth would I or any sane woman identify myself by reference to it?

We don't have to justify or clarify what we are , we are just Women. If others need to clarify their non Woman status with trans, that's a them problem.

Its not just a descriptor its a classification which moves some male humans into a grouping with the majority of female humans

It changes the meaning of woman from female human to mean some male humans and most female humans.

In legal terms if women means some males and most but not all females how would womens rights not to be discriminated against be benchmarked?

Eg how should society organise groupings for employment protections for activities around growing new humans which require both female and male input?

Ok. So let’s turn this around.

How the fuck then can a male person know what being a ‘woman’ feels like? Your statements are really not coherent when they are scrutinised.

No male person can ever experience life as a woman. They can only ever experience life as a male person who believes they are a woman.

Even when they 'act' like a woman, they are acting as they believe a 'woman' should act. Which is fucking misogynistic!

Even if they are treated 'as a woman' by some people, they are being treated as a 'male who presents as a woman and believes they are a woman'. Because their every reaction is based on that. Not on them being female in any way.
Even when they have extreme body modifications, it is to be their own concept of what a female looks like to them. It is not what a female is.

How can it be?

The only way a person can experience life as a woman, is to have a female body, formed around the production of large gametes, even if it doesn't produce those and to navigate their life based on the decisions they and society makes that revolve around them having that body.

A male can conceptualise what it might be like to be a female, but that is all it ever is - their concept of being female.

They may do it because they don't feel they fit into how they conceptualise how a male person interacts with the world (ie. their own stereotypes around being male) or they do it because they want to be seen as a female (using their own stereotypes of how a female navigates life). It really doesn't matter though. Their motivation is irrelevant to the outcome. And I consider the outcome can only be described as misogyny.

Which is that they will always be just a male who believes they are something they are objectively not.

How can the material reality be any different? This is why someone's gender is only based on someone's philosophical belief. And philosophical beliefs are fine for people to hold, but not one person in the UK has to comply with another's philosophical belief.

The logic cannot be any different than that I am afraid.

No it doesn’t? Cis just means you feel the same gender as your biological sex. So no biological men will ever be grouped with cis women.

It’s not a term I really use, though I guess I might say “cis women” to clarify as it’s quicker than saying “biological women”. Normally, I’d just say “women”.

Please stop forcing other people to believe in your philosophical beliefs.

Gender identity is only philosophical belief and only a small group of people have that belief. Calling people ‘cis’ forces that belief onto people who don’t believe in it.

What other group in society gets to do that?

No, thank you. How could I possibly be when I don’t have a gender ID.

How does one feel the same gender? Define it.

@Bogginsthe3rd

It is in no way MY classification. I think the whole thing is absolute bollocks and that there’s two sexes, (plus a tiny weeny minority of people with DSDs who may be unclear on their biological sex until puberty).

But I get the feeling from your other posts that your fake disingenuous nonsense takes are designed to fuel some frustrated screenshottable MN quotes.

Yeah, obviously whether you feel masculine or feminine has no bearing on your actual biological sex. Everyone knows that (I think?????)

Just, the fact is, some people do feel a different gender from their biological sex. They just do. It makes sense that there would be a term for that phenomenon.