CIS

[Delivery]

Just read an article about the Supreme Court judgement today. It repeatedly refers to Cis women. I get so unbelievably annoyed by that term.

I am not a ‘Cis’ woman. I just hate the term. If you want to be a trans woman, fine. That’s what you are. Don’t make me the other side of your imaginary coin. Don’t make me call myself something I’m not. Don’t make me part of your ‘We’re all just at various points on the woman spectrum’ nonsense.

There are women. And there are trans women. Two entirely different things.

I’m a biological woman but I don’t feel like a woman because woman isn’t a feeling. Woman is an objective being. The same way I don’t feel like a TV, computer mouse or an eye patch.

Fair enough. That’s a good example!

I suppose someone might say ‘This is Funnywonder. She’s one of three cis women in this department’ … or something. Then my blood will undoubtedly be permitted to boil. Am I allowed to correct him/her/them though?

Just adding my tuppence: I do not "identify" as cisgender. I am a woman. This is not up for debate.

It is another logical fail, isn't it?

Just adding this again as maybe it is useful to keep adding it occasionally.

No male person can ever experience life as a woman. They can only ever experience life as a male person who believes they are a woman.

Even when they 'act' like a woman, they are acting as they believe a 'woman' should act. Which is fucking misogynistic!

Even if they are treated 'as a woman' by some people, they are being treated as a 'male who presents as a woman and believes they are a woman'. Because their every reaction is based on that. Not on them being female in any way.

Even when they have extreme body modifications, it is to be their own concept of what a female looks like to them. It is not what a female is.

How can it be?

The only way a person can experience life as a woman, is to have a female body, formed around the production of large gametes, even if it doesn't produce those and to navigate their life based on the decisions they and society makes that revolve around them having that body.

A male can conceptualise what it might be like to be a female, but that is all it ever is - their concept of being female.

If others could feel exactly the same as that male person, they might categorise that feeling as being a male person. Or they might categorise it as being any thing at all.

They may do it because they don't feel they fit into how they conceptualise how a male person interacts with the world (ie. their own stereotypes around being male) or they do it because they want to be seen as a female (using their own stereotypes of how a female navigates life). It really doesn't matter though. Their motivation is irrelevant to the outcome. And I consider the outcome can only be described as misogyny.

Which is that they will always be just a male who believes they are something they are objectively not.

How can the material reality be any different? This is why someone's gender is only based on someone's philosophical belief. And philosophical beliefs are fine for people to hold, but not one person in the UK has to comply with another's philosophical belief.

The logic cannot be any different than that I am afraid.

We know that there are people out there who take medical and cosmetic steps to undergo extreme body modifications to look physically like they are a reptile or a vampire.

Can you explain why we should consider one group and treat them as if they have become something they are materially not, and not another group?

Can you apply this to age. We know that some people will take extreme steps to not look their age, do we as a society have any obligation to treat those people as if they are younger than they are?

Do we need names to categorise people who believe they are a different age compared to someone who believes that they are the age they are?

Why do all biological women (excluding trans men I guess) have to submit to being called cis just because a tiny minority of the male population identifies as a transgender woman? I don’t understand why our description needs to change when the term transgender woman, or indeed trans woman, exists. That should be enough.

thefirebird · Today 10:42
“Being” something is quite literally a part of a person’s identity. It’s how you would describe yourself and how others would describe you. It’s quite sad to get so hung up on this. You’re a cisgender woman. Get over it.

@thefirebird should trans women get over being referred to as trans women and not “women”? Or indeed “men who identify as women”?

Cis is like having a word for people who dont collect stamps

Completely pointless

Some racist white people would quite happily call a black person the 'n' word. The general consensus is that is a horrible word to describe a black person. I could not call myself black because simply I am not, even if I fancied identifying myself in that way. 🤷 If they would like to use the 'n' word when referring to themselves then fine, crack on, but I would fully expect to get called out if I used that language and they didn't appreciate it

These people applying the term ‘cis women’ to all actual women (apart from transmen and ‘nonbinaries’, presumably) or telling us all we’re ‘cisgender’ and to get over it … it’s just so fucking arrogant and dismissive and frankly ignorant.

‘Gender’ is indeed cultural. It refers to various stereotypical norms and roles, restrictive boxes women are shoved into. Norms about ‘feminine’ appearance. Norms about parenting roles, family responsibilities, subjects we’re supposed to be interested in or not. Things women are discouraged or even barred from doing.

My job, and my daughters even moreso are in areas (idiotically) viewed as ‘masculine’, in which women are underrepresented for no reason relating to innate ability - no physical strength required. How then can you glibly call us ‘cis’? No. We’re just women, with our own individual characters. You can take your gender boxes and FOTTFSOF with them.

If we refer to 'transwomen' in factually accurate terms as men, there's no need for a prefix like 'cis' 🤷‍♀️

this is true.

There is absolutely no fucking need to demote women and girls to being a 'subset' of the word used to describe their sex categories. ie. woman and girl.

It really defies logic that people think that this is acceptable within society.

But here we are.

Why is it a term that is necessary at all? My biological sex is: woman. We don’t have CIS men so why do we have CIS women.

Absent a belief in gender identity ideology “cis” makes zero sense, the way it is used by TRAs and their supporters.

It’s often claimed as a neutral term for “non trans” - this isn’t in fact true as if it were, a “cis woman” is a non trans woman. So a “trans woman” would be a biologically female person who identifies as a man.

Which is of course not how genderists use it.

Thankfully, I don’t hang around in circles where somebody would refer to me as a ‘cis’ woman.

We do have cis men though 😂

They’re just men. No cis required

PP was saying why should we have cis women if we don't have cis men. I was simply saying that society does acknowledge both cis men and women, whatever your opinion is.

Yes. Somehow can't imagine a group of blokes diligently remembering to refer to themselves as cis men so as not to make Jack (formerly known as Emma) feel less of a man though.

I was about to
post similar. I have a life changing diagnosis for the worse and I’m bothered about this stuff.

I never understand why people say that.

Actually we do have cis men - usually its used to refer to cis gay men as if to imply a) they are somehow not gay enough and b) they are traitors the LGBTQIA++etc community.

So, it’s also imposed, implies judgment and is still a slur. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Oh come on - I have many, many other things to worry about in my life, I still hate the term cis and won't use it.

If we can all identify as we want, and that should always be respected, how come that doesn't apply to women who don't like being called cis? It's because it ties into the bigger issue of general misogyny, which is well worth being concerned about.

I do know one man who refers to himself as cis, and have heard the term a few times. It's far less common than cis woman though.

I am a woman - an adult female human being and will ignore any prat who uses the term cis woman

we all know what being a female is.

absolutely no need for a prefix and only started to come in use when a few males decided that women needed a prefix

once again men trying to decide what is right for us women