Supreme Court rules the term sex refers to 'biological women'

[everythingthelighttouches]

Finally.

There is no “triumph” for me.

i am delighted though.
I feel relief that this reasonable request for clarity has been heard.

The judge also said “the law still gives trans people protection against discrimination.”

As it should do. No one ever argued otherwise.

I don’t think trans organisations would support such testing if we said ok once tested that’s your gender (and sex) for life, no feeling yourself into the other gender cos we know what your chromosomes are.

On ITV now a trans woman who refers to cis women! I'm not CIS. Why do trans insist on telling us what we are?

The biological man who identifies as a woman says she's a real trans but some are men in skirts pretending to be women. What we've said all along! How do you work out if they are pretending and dangerous or not! Hence keep ALL biological men OUT of women's spaces. Get your own spaces.

Exactly!! Shocking you even have to say it.. I’m so sorry for your experience.. you have every right to be furious. I wonder where these people think safeguarding originated from. There are damn good reasons why we have it, there are damn good reasons why women and girls especially are entitled to spaces entirely free from men. I have spent 10 years going through horrendous safeguarding training related to children.. and now people say “oh but what’s the harm”… The harm has been, and still is plain to see, and the most vulnerable in our society are put at the sharp end. I still find it inconceivable that there are women out there who believe allowing men unfettered access to spaces that girls especially believe to be single sex is “ok”. It’s not, it’s been proven over and over that it is not, and girls like my daughter and her friends are not some passive pawns you can use in that experiment. Makes my blood boil.

💯

One of the intervenes in support of ForWomen Scotland was the group Scottish Lesbians.

One of the points considered in depth was whether lesbians are entitled to form a group that excludes males.

The Scotgov said that if a man paid £5 for a certificate, he would be entitled to join any lesbian group, and the women would be compelled by law to allow him to join.

This judgement clarifies that lesbians are females attracted to females, and entitled to form groups on that basis.

Yes. Another intervener was the Lesbian Project (led by Kathleen Stock & Julie Burchill). It's a relief to see the rights of lesbians to same sex association so clearly asserted in the judgement from the SC.

Or what about the woman's beauty clinics where a male-bodied person demanded the person on duty wax around their penis and testicles? And then tried (unsuccessfully thankfully) to sue these clinics?

I'd like to add that the man in question targeted mostly immigrant women who ran their business from home. The majority of them had religious or cultural reasons for only offering services to women which meant that they had not been trained and did not possess the skills to perform intimate waxing on male genitalia. Clearly there were also safety concerns about receiving male clients into their homes.

Despite the fact that the man did not win his human rights case some of the women went out of business or stopped working anyway to avoid the stress of turning down male clients who claimed to be women.

That's how Canada's self ID law enables misogynists and racists to persecute women.

Trans activists have piggy backed on the LGB rights movement.

But 'gender' by definition erodes homosexuality.

It's also alarming to see how many children who may be same sex attracted are being told that in fact they are 'trans' and therefore require medical treatment.

How infantile. This whole thread, in my opinion and I am entitled to that, is filled with toxic transphobic tropes. I have spent decades working with vulnerable and abused adults and children. There are far greater issues that need addressing.

Nobody is stopping you from addressing whatever issues you feel moved to.

Yesterday I asked my lesbian colleague what she thought of the judgment and her first word was "hurrah!"

Name even one of these toxic transphobic tropes please.

Thank god and hope this is the start of the end of all this madness .

I think this has been needed. Isn’t it funny that men don’t need this, but us women, as always have to fight just to have something as simple as our title.

I want to add that I was listening to LBC yesterday and they were discussing this ruling. A transman came on and said that as someone that once identified as a biological woman, women only spaces are so important. That as a biological woman there is a need to be protected from men, and a vulnerability- that is and feels different from the vulnerability that they fell as a trans person. I absolutely respected this point of view. Because being a woman isn’t a feeling to us that are biologically women, we just are - and between the 2 sexes we are always the vulnerable ones a majority of the time and seem to constantly be fighting for our rights.

I believe the trans community and allies shouldn’t see this as an erasure of their identity, but a chance to fight for what they need, more third spaces, more support during transition, support with things that actually matter like discrimination at work, support accessing correct information, support for parents.

m There is so much more to fight about than “who deserves to go into the women’s toilets” - who cares about this? (Although this is so important in situations like being at a bar - but I’ve seen transwoman in female toilets and nobody cares - we get on with it). Trans rights shouldn’t take away from women’s rights. But that doesn’t mean we should fight for trans rights too.

The silencing of GC views has been anti free speech. The very fact that GC women and men have been told they can’t say what they believe at work when it is relevant ie toilets, changing areas, safeguarding is appalling. This ruling changes this

if you can’t see them then I am sorry but I can’t help you.

And I do have better things to do by actually supporting vulnerable people and improving their lives rather than demonising a whole group because of the actions of a few on social media.

'where do trans women who are attracted to other women fit in the ‘labels’ if they aren’t lesbian? '

Straight men.

Another point for @fourbedwinner to consider when you are reading. I think there needs to be some sense applied with regards to how someone reacts to being excluded. You have expressed that you find it concerning that some male people might be excluded from female spaces and they might be upset. But people are rightfully excluded from many things that they are not entitled to access.

As a heterosexual women, I would never seek to access spaces created for homosexual males for instance. I would not seek to access a children’s space, no matter how young or old I feel.

If a male person has an unreasonable expectation that they should access something based on their feelings and their philosophical belief, when they are rightfully excluded, it really is their issue to come to terms with.

Those male people were never supposed to be included in all things set aside for female people. Just because some female people decided it was ok to allow them access didn’t make those female people right.

People often ask me why I stick to using male people and female people. It is partly due to avoiding deletion in the past on MN. However, I find that if I can cut through the emotional response and the prevailing confusion based on when people use ‘woman’ or even use the word transwoman, it makes it clearer in my head.

The purpose of the entire mantra of TWAW was to remove that accurate and precise language. So that there was a greater chance of someone having an emotional sympathetic response to hearing that group were excluded from provisions and events meant to be women only.

Surely the usual drug testing which prevents competitors from taking drugs to boost performance applies. If a biological man or woman took drugs including testosterone to boost performance its illegal.

So a biological woman who pumps themselves full of testosterone shouldn't compete against other biological women who dont use drugs to enhance performance, due to drug advantages.

You can undo your vote by clicking on the one you really meant.

Are you taking what people are posting in your mind and exaggerating it and catastrophising it.

Such as taking any discussion about rape as meaning someone has posted ‘all transwomen rape’?

Men who are attracted to women ? Usually described as heterosexual or straight IME.

Do explain how you would fight to the back tooth is you were the decision maker in the Scottish hospital and how you would/should deal with the situation where there is a "professional" doctor who is male who expected his "professional" workmates (both female and male) to bring him to a woman who had stated to a workmate that she only wanted a woman doctor (the female kind of doctor) to carry out any medical examination....

Have you ever heard the term 'that which is presented without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence?

So yeah, your points are dismissed. If this thread is so full of transphobia, why can't you point to even one example of it 😂

And it is not 'demonising' to say that it is right that legally men should be treated as men. How is it just and fair to women to create legal lies about this?