I have moved out with eldest daughter due to the way my wife treats her.

[George805]

Hi, I am looking for some advice regarding my wife's treatment of eldest daughter.

Two daughters 8 and 6, eldest is a bit of an old soul, loves fossils, history, animals and cares deeply about the planet, she likes to wear t shirts with fossils and bugs on them with jeans and trainers, not interested in latest fashion or trends.

I love my wife but she can be a bit snobby and judgmental at times, she has to follow the latest trends and is in to everything glamorous, youngest daughter is the same, loves fashion, makeup (big no for me as she's too young) she is naturally very talented, does dance and can sing really well, I love both my children equally but I have to be truthful and say that I see a bit of a mean streak in youngest and I'm worried she is growing in to a bit of a bully.

Now the issue is that my wife massively favours youngest daughter, brings her everywhere, constantly buying her things, always calling her the most beautiful girl in the world (whilst eldest is standing right next to her), phone is full of pictures of just her, never stops speaking about her, always got to be right next to her on the sofa/dinner table etc etc

I've pulled her up on this so many times, told her she never spends time with eldest, never compliments her or shows even the slightest interest in what she's doing.

Had a horrible day at work today so stopped off in town on my way home to buy some snacks and treat the girls to a jellycat each, I bought eldest a caterpillar and youngest a bunny, when I arrived home and gave them to the girls my wife was instantly all over the youngest telling her how beautiful her bunny was just like her and didn't say anything about eldest. Eldest left and I went and spoke to her, she asked if I'd change her caterpillar for a bunny, I was shocked as I know for a fact she doesn't like the bunnies, she likes birds and bugs, what she said next floored me and made me feel like I've really failed her, she said mummy would like her the same way she likes her sister if she got a bunny, she got really upset and said she knows she's ugly and that's why eveyone likes youngest better.

I took both girls across the road to the neighbours and went back home and had the biggest argument with my wife we've ever had in 10 years of marriage, I'm not proud of it but I really lost my cool and accused my wife of neglecting eldest daughter and told her she's causing her to have body issues etc by the way she treats her, in the heat of the moment I packed a bag for myself and eldest and moved out.

But I've now had time to cool down and I realise I don't want to go back, I don't want my eldest to have to live everyday being compared to her sister and not feeling loved, living in her sisters shadow constantly having to hear how beautiful and amazing she is.

My wife has phoned over 20 times and left numerous texts and voicemails, I can't bring mysel to reply yet. I don't think it's good for eldest to be around her mother from now on until she can learn to treat them the same, I want eldest to live with me and youngest to spend half the time with me.

I know it's likely an unusual situation but would I stand a chance with this in court? I'm really worried about the way eldest is talking about herself and I think I'm going to need to get her some professional help, I obviously don't want her to never see her mum again, I just want her to have a brake from having to deal with her behaviour and for wife to slowly one on one build a relationship up with her without comparing her to youngest.

You’ve done a super job standing up for your eldest, OP. Your youngest does need protection from this unbalanced affection, too. She is so young and being given incredibly unhealthy messages that may well lead to her having problems in future as she grows and changes. I hope you can get counselling and find a way forward.

That’s what you’re focusing on????

Nothing in the quote suggests blame being put on the youngest. Although by the sounds of things the mother’s toxic behaviour is being copied by the youngest. But back to your point the quote says nothing negative at all about the youngest.

Unlike my wife I pay both girls equal attention, I take youngest to her dance class, sing with her, let her paint my nails and tell her how much I love her everyday, my wife on the other hand never has a nice word to say about the quirky bug loving one and pays no interest in any of her hobbies, the youngest is fine to stay with her mum at the moment

Also @George805 I notice Relate have some online phone appointments available tonight and tomorrow, just a thought? They'd give you some pointers as to what to do now and maybe over the easter holidays so you can try to support your DDs - you aren't going to be able to resolve anything but might get an idea what to do next, for the best for the girls.
https://relateappointments.as.me/chat

I feel really sorry for your eldest DD. Well done for standing up for her.

I am not sure how agreeable your wife would be to a family therapy. But maybe that’s a first step? If she is unwilling to work on her behaviour towards her child, I think your only option is to split up.

What a disgrace of a comment. You think it's funny?

OP I think you're doing the right thing, giving you all some space. Hopefully this is a wake up call for your wife.

I have had a situation where my dh spends more time with one dc because they have hobbies in common and that child is easier to get along with. He then thinks I treat the other dc better. In reality I’m over compensating because of his actions. We have argued about it many times. I am not saying this is the case for you but the way you speak about your youngest would fit that perhaps without realising you spend more time with eldest. Maybe you have more in common with her. Maybe you and your wife have fallen into this dynamic even unconsciously. I have seen it many times, in families of 4, often there is a divide of one child with the parent they are most alike or the easier one with the parent who prefers that.
what does your wife say? I see she denied it but did she say anything when you gave examples? That would be interesting for you to reflect on. Have you looked at the dynamic of the whole family and how you both parent.

If it is exactly as you say, and it could well be as I have seen on here lots, then I would suggest you take both children full time so they can have equal treatment from you and see mum less often.

This is very helpful, thank you.

I can understand why you've done what you've done however it's something you have to tread carefully with. If you did split up permanently with wife solely on the basis of how she treats eldest, you'll run the risk of eldest blaming herself for breaking up the family, and youngest also blaming eldest (particularly if your wife encourages her).

If you do decide to split up I would frame it as something like 'Mummy has started behaving in a way/doing things that I don't like, and I feel that she's turned into a different person than the one I fell in love with, I don't like the way she is behaving so I don't want to live with her/be married to her anymore, but we both still love you very much, it's not your fault.'

It's possible a therapist or something might be able to help with better wording.

If you do decide to give it another go, therapy for dd1 is probably a good idea but I'd be tempted to insist on family therapy/your wife talking to someone as well.

I'd also try and write down all the examples you can think of where your wife has treated dd1 differently/badly. As pp's have said, your wife could just be thinking that it's normal to have more in common with one child, but seeing it all down in black and white might be helpful in showing whether she's gone too far.

Maybe ask her to write 10 things she loves about dd1/she's proud of dd1 for. Or ten things dd1 likes. For any good parent it should be easy to write 100 for their dc! If she struggles to even get to ten (but could do loads for dd2) that would be interesting. Obviously goes without saying don't do this anywhere where the girls could overhear/find said list!

If only all children had a wonderful dad like this to stick up for them.
File for custody of both girls

It's right there in the opening post ffs

I've pulled her up on this so many times

Well done you!
You are right to leave.

At least you can provide one safe home for your daughter where she doesn't have to feel self conscious about being herself.

We shouldn't stay with immoral people anyway. It gives the impression that we approve of their behaviour. That it's normal, to be accepted and that we are on their side regardless how they treat others.

You need to be careful your child doesn't feel to-blame though. Make it clear you don't love eachother anymore and that's nothing they've done wrong it's a mummy and daddy issue.

And make a point of working on developing your youngest child's empathy. It's very important to get ahead of this. I'm sure there are books on the subject with techniques. I'd imagine a lot of scenario based chats over the years will help.

Seriously pat on the back of you get yourself out of this marriage and prioritse your kids mate. Many fail.

Side note, never say 'your mum loves you (she just doesn't show it well)'. People who live us, do not treat us like shit and play us off against our siblings. Yes it's hard for a child to feel unloved but it's a million times worse for them to grow up thinking people can love us and treat us with hate and contempt. Just get her out and focus on telling her you love her and she is cool the way she is.

Your daughters are lucky to have you .

George you sound great, I definitely think you did the right thing in the short term. I've never heard of a case quite like this before so I can't predict what arrangements you will or won't be allowed if it comes to court, but the important thing is that DD1 is away from the situation that was making her so unhappy right now. I'm not even sure that I would avoid telling her what's happened, or at least a simplified version that would not make her feel as if any of it was her fault - "I could see you were sad because mum didn't like your caterpillar, so I thought you deserved a treat, and that's why we're here at granny's."

I do think that unless your wife completely changes her ways, DD2 will be harmed by living with her too, and will need your input to make sure she doesn't go any further down the path of being image obsessed or a bully. I would assume her mum has been enabling that behaviour all this time. I think I agree with the person who said they might be better off if you had custody of both. Just be aware that if you do, you'll have to watch out that you don't seem to be harder on DD2 because of her interests. She can learn to be a nicer person without having to be a clone of DD1.

Your wife's behaviour towards the eldest is totally unfair. As a parent you can't expect to have lots in common with your kids - they'll be their own people- but you should be interested in them.

I personally think you should have taken both girls. Your wife's behaviour will have an impact on the youngest as well although it might be more upsetting for her not to see her mum. I'm surprised you aren't seeking full custody of both girls in the interests of parity.

Did your wife have any issues relating to your eldest? Only asking because my mum treated me and my sister in a similar way but now as an adult I can see it boils down to issues with her post natal mental health - she really struggled after having me but had a very straight forward time with my sister and was therefore able to form an attachment with her that she couldn't form with me due to trauma.

And don't leave the youngest. She's not fine because the golden child is also being abused. They see how their siblings is treated so live in a constant worry that mummy might suddenly treat them that way too.

It also makes it seem that the oldest is the reason for the split. You don't want to create a greater sibling devide. When you have them, try to have both. And vice versa.

This is outrageous. Of course he needs to protect the child who is in crisis. What is wrong with you?

Child protection solicitor here- so your wife has called and texted over 20 times and you cannot bring yourself to let her know where you have taken your child? Presumably you both have parental rights and responsibilities? Regardless of how you feel about your wife’s relationship with your daughter, you have no legal right to keep her from her. Presumably if she doesn’t hear from you she will contact the police. Not a good idea and won’t reflect well on you going forward. Custody likely to be awarded on a 50/50 basis, unless you are able to successfully make an argument that this should not be the case (difficult). The situation sounds like a difficult one for you but you should be mindful about treading carefully here.

Yes you should fight for custody of both girls

Sound like some family therapy is in order.
I think it's a good idea that you removed yourself and your elder DD from the house.
My DF could be an absolute arse of a man when we were growing up, and DM took us to GPs at least twice when he topped the Dickhead chart. He quite often favoured me over my little DB, with devastating results. Thank you for standing up for your daughter, OP.

Fair point - I think its good advice to just text back and let her know where you are, maybe say let's talk again tomorrow.

Seems like a sensible thing to do rather than argue in front of them. Why do some posters get so weird when it’s a man posting?

I know someone who favoured one over the other and it annoyed the hell out of me.

OP go take a look at the stately homes thread. I think you have a massive DW problem. She's emotionally neglecting both children, excluding the eldest and fucking the youngest up in a different way by turning her into a mini-me. DW is the bully with the mean streak, the youngest is doing what's necessary to stay on her good side.

Well done for standing up for your daighters

but also realise that you need to protect your youngest as well - being the golden child like this is toxic for her as well - the meanness you are seeing is no doubt being cultivated by your wife

an absolute shitshow for you OP - you’ve got a hard road ahead of you but stand firm - but as said make sure to not forget your youngest as well