Social services in bedrooms

[Ythough]

I have two children from my first marriage who are late teens/adults and one child from a subsequent relationship.

Youngest child’s dad lives at the opposite side of the country and my child spends time there in the school holidays. The ready of the time they live with me.

There has been an issue at dad’s house that may or may not affect my DC, as such social services want to be involved and make an assessment regarding wether or not DC should be having contact at Dad’s.

I have agreed that they can come and speak with DC here, at school, speak with their doctor, whatever they need. To have these meetings I am having to take time of work but it’s important so I am just doing what they ask.

Now on their first visit they explained all the issues, then said, right we need to look around the house and see the children’s bedrooms.

I allowed this but I am wondering why they needed to look around my home considering this investigation has nothing what so ever to do with me other than being DCs mum and more so, why they needed to check my older children’s rooms when they have absolutely nothing to do with youngest DCs dad.

Teen DD was horrified as she is a messy teen, older DC was away at uni so they just went in to look around and came back out.

so AIBU to think this wasn’t at all necessary?

Ok, so she could have said that room belongs to an adult..you will need to contact them direct and ask them perosnally, I can’t give consent myself.

would that have been seen as negative by SS, or is that perfectly acceptable and SS wouldn’t have batted an eyelid…?

Ive already answered that question, SWs dont have any legal rights to enter any property.

Yes lodgers details would be taken if given, rooms asked to be looked at.

So basically SS advise, expect the mother to follow through (having put her under pressure in the first place by putting her under scrutiny) whilst they stand back and watch.
And the father who is responsible for the behaviour …. gets away with what? A slap on the wrist? An opportunity to harass the mother (eg in case of a controlling man that will jump at the opportunity to put his ex through the courts I’d she stops contact etc….).
How is that supposed to protect the child??

Well the room doesnt 'belong' to that adult because the SW is talking to the home owner/occupier. However they might say that and the view of that would depend on what the issues were. In this case, perhaps not majorly significant if every other aspect of the child's care can be fully assessed and analysed

On the other hand, if a referral comes in that a child is at risk from unsafe adults in their home, and its found a load of other lodgers live there, and very few details are given about them or SW cant look around the house fully, thats a different context isnt it.

I think is the a sensible mindset.

It does feel intrusive. But they aren’t assessing you as such - more assessing of their decision you make you FT parent is right for your DS.

@Ythough id view this that when/if they make a report that dad shouldn’t have the children they will have done there job correct and can be confident in the report that kids will be and are safe with you .
If they are not seeing the dad then they can close any case. .

I'm trying to remember from my Social Work training day's but I'm pretty sure looking at a child's bedroom & sleeping arrangements came from poor Victoria Climbie who was sadly very badly neglected & abused by her family & from memory slept in a bath. Google it. Please don't take offence, it will be noted as a positive & just so you know a messy bedroom will not be a concern- this is seen as quite normal x

They are probably looking at DC's frame of reference.

Or perhaps dad has suggested the child is projecting their home experience onto him.

They have to it's part of their job. There has been past cases where children were sleeping on a filthy mattress on the floor. So they have to cover all bases. Honestly they can't do right for doing wrong. I've had social services involved with my DC from when DS was 4 due to children's disabilities. They never asked when they first became involved early 00's. But when I moved around 2007 they asked to see the children's rooms. They asked again when we moved 3 years later. They weren't bothered about looking at my room.

Yes, they don’t have the powers to do anything else. There is a safe parent with PR who can act to protect the child, they might step in if the child is at risk but would then have to follow appropriate procedures. (Child Protection plan, public law outline, public law care proceedings if necessary). They do not get involved in private law disputes between parents unless the court ask them for their view.

It isn’t for them to dole out “punishment” to the father, just to ensure the child is safe.

It is from Victoria Climbe that asking to see a child's room became a standard part of social work visits to children, it is mandatory if it is a child protection visit, encouraged but not necessarily required if it's a child in need visit (usually when there's an open assessment it's child in need, though if theres a serious safeguarding concern, s47, they would ask)

Please bear in mind it isn't just looking for negatives, it's looking for positives. If the SW sees your child has a room that is clearly 'theirs' eg not just that they have bedding etc but they have their own space, their own personality, that they're clearly well cared for, that really makes us feel more confident about someone caring for them well - which is really important if there is an issue at dads.

I have to be careful not to be too outing but I once went to a home after the police had been out (so I didn't discover this) Home had been visited several times, food in the cupboards, brand new toys in the living room, well decorated, spotless. Only if you'd looked closely at the toys you'd realised they'd never been opened. The children's bedroom was like a prison cell, one stained mattress on the floor, excrement on the walls. The parents shut the children in as they couldn't cope with them, fed them on scraps they'd throw into the room like you would do an animal. It was really, really shocking and very hard to believe the difference between the space they received guests and where the children were left.

When doing home visits I usually give examples of why I'm asking to reassure people that I'm not prying or worried about mess, and usually if I mention Victoria and the reasons I find people are quite understanding. In fact, if they're shocked that's usually a good sign, as it means they (hopefully!) wouldn't even consider leaving a child without a space to sleep and feel safe.

It may be totally irrelevant, but I have adopted two children and you have a series of visits once the child is placed with you and every time they visited they checked the child's bedroom - without fail, even though they were coming weekly - it was just routine. It sounds like that's what this is.

Completely disagree with this. I’m not a social worker, but it seems entirely sensible to me that a full picture of the child’s living conditions needs to be gathered. It’s not a case of the mother being ‘investigated’ or accused of anything. I can imagine that once a child has been referred to SS, they have an obligation to leave no stone unturned - it will be their heads on the block if they miss something.

When my children had their health visitor checks, the HV wanted to look around my entire house, including their bedrooms. Yes it felt a bit intrusive, and I could have declined, but I didn’t see the harm in allowing them to do their job. I don’t see how that’s any different to the OP’s scenario. If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear.

I also offer children (especially teens) if they want a few minutes to tidy or put away anything embarrassing. Because in reality, anything that I'd be really worried about would need more than 5 mins to sort - so that offer can help them feel a little bit more in control. I do also tell people about their right to decline though only with the context of why I'm asking, and as mentioned once I say about the type of situations I have seen and been worried about, most people seem to be understanding. It's basic respect (though easy to miss when you're in a rush and under pressure)

I work closely alongside SS and I do think this is unusual and invasive.

OP is not under investigation, there have been no concerns as to ops parenting or provision for her children flagged up here so as such there's absolutely no reason for SS to go through OPs house. Families who are involved with SS also have the right to a reasonable level of privacy and dignity and while obviously the best interests of the child comes first, work should be done in a way that upholds those rights. I had similar issue with my ex and our SW never, ever asked to see around my house because there was never a concern raised re: my parenting - they came spoke to me and saw ds and that was it.

Op I would be asking why this is necessary given that no concerns re: your children's time spent with you have been raised - or have they been? I'd be asking them to explain exactly why seeing your home is relevant and ask what they are looking for.

I don't know if you can realistically say no without risking coming across as potentially hiding something but I don't think they should be asking you in the first place.

Once you get under the radar of social services, they do check living arrangements. It will be part of the form they have to fill in. I

It’s more or less because there have been serious case reviews where it turned out afterwards that if someone had checked the child’s sleeping/living arrangements more thoroughly, risk would have been assessed better.

In order for a social worker to say that everything is fine at your house, they need to have seen that, not assumed it. For example if they needed to recommend a child stayed with one parent due to risks with the other.

Really, they just want to be able to see that the child has everything they need e.g clean safe place to sleep. Mess doesn’t come into it really. Issues would be no bed/no sheets/serious hazards.

Over the years I've read countless stories of child abuse going unnoticed or not taken seriously enough. I'm sort of please they are getting stricter. I think they have 'boxes to tick' when it comes to home visits. I think they have to do this with all home visits, even ones like yours where the child is fine.

When I got new blinds in my house my health visitor checked the string was fastened to the wall. I don't think she had any concerns but just wanted to check.

No. The point is that if contact is stopped with the dad, the consequence being that the child is permanently with mum, there is a duty of care to ensure that the child is adequately cared for at mum's. It's not rocket science. I wouldn't say, as OP said earlier, that it's a box ticking exercise. It isn't due to any concerns about the OP as such. It's a duty to make sure the child is safe and well looked after at the home where she will be full-time living if contact is stopped with dad.

Of course it feels invasive but I would welcome a 1000 unnecessary checks if it meant 1 necessary one didn’t go undetected.

@Lavender14 an assessment needs to build a picture of the child's lived experience, and seeing the bedroom where they presumably spend a lot of their time is a big part of that.
It isn't about 'investigating' the OP. It's about trying to understand that child's day to day life, the positives as well as the negatives. Of course there are times where the picture flips and what we thought was going to be safe, wasn't. But a lot of the time it's just about us being able to feel more confident that things we believe to be good in a childs life, and protective, are exactly that.

In order for a social worker to say that everything is fine at your house, they need to have seen that, not assumed it.

This is it, really. They’re not trying to catch you out.

I'd have just said no.

They need to compile a report of the childs living conditions and ensure their needs are met.
clean warm safe bedding, appropriate clothing Enough food in the fridges/ Freezers and cupboards
Access to toys for educational/ social needs
it all builds a bigger picture
This applies to both parents

That might be reasonable in a situation where the care was 50-50, but in the situation where the child lives with their mother and only occasionally visits the father in the school holidays, it's madness.

they get reports about children that are living in homes where they're neglected and abused reports from schools, their own families, and the parents or caregivers are given repeated chances to do better while still getting reports about the child being abused... then complain they are under too much pressure and their caseloads are too high, then you get a situations like this where the father lives 300 miles away and only has the child in some school holidays for visits but the child lives with the mother all year, and because the mother might then have the child half a dozen weeks more in a year, her home suddenly needs to be checked out for suitability. Complete madness and lack of common sense.