Person with MH problems should not be better off no working

[YourTidyScroller]

Just that really. Someone working a minimum wage job full-time should not be worse off than someone not working due to mental health problems and claiming benefits.
I know several people in this situation claiming UC for housing benefit, council tax, ESA, disability top up and PIP. They all have no work record and few qualifications so would probably only get a minimum wage job. But their income would reduce. So they have a financial incentive not to recover.

That’s my point, whether someone pays for the support or not, the person has been deemed to need the support and PIP payments help towards the cost of it. It’s the person choice how they then use the money, but the need is the same.

@frozendaisy why do you assume my friends do not have a life? They do. They see friends and family, go to community activities.

I'm not working due to severe mental health issues. I get PIP and UC. But I'd be better off working for sure. Even if I was worse off financially I'd love to be able to work. I miss working so much, but I can't handle doing the weekly shop, let alone working part time. It's so frustrating and lonely. Even if working made me worse off I'd want to do it. There's plenty of people like me.

Haven’t read all comments but the first page of comments are very interesting - as the poll reveals most agree with OP’s sentiment…

So they manage/get by/put up with , something that their disability has impacted?

that’s up to them then isn’t it I guess.

I don’t know anyone claiming pip for an illness they don’t genuinely have no. I’m still waiting for you to let me know whether you’re claiming that your ‘friends’ are faking their illness for money to splurge or that they have an illness but they hoard the money for some other reason?

PIP isn’t an easy process, I refuse to believe you know three separate people who have managed to convince three separate professionals that they need additional money, when they really don’t. Particularly given that the fraud rate for pip os estimated to be 0%

I am actually a Guardian reader

Just to burst your bubble on this i have carers due to my mental health issues and I know many quite a few people with mental health issues that have carers or live in supported accommodation due to their mental health.

Obviously I am much more likely to know these people than the average person due to being in hospitals.

I am aware though that this goes against what you want to believe plus I would be much better off working and I am aiming to get into work

unfair that someone dragging themselves into a brutal minimum wage job gets less money than someone not working.

when you compare someone with the same circumstances, someone working doesn’t get less money than someone not working because of the UC taper and, for those with LCW/LCWRA and/or DC, the work allowance.

I wonder if we’ll end up one day when all the jobs have gone to AI and robots with a system of universal basic income and nobody feeling as though they have to prove they’re not capable of coping with life?
So a basic but decent standard of living. Adequate housing. Peace.

Then decent salaries for the people doing the shit jobs. Picking fruit, prison officer, cleaners.

Something is wrong at the moment. The reward for a lot of work is just not there and the numbers of people who can’t cope with modern life is worrying.

@Mumble12 I have said several times their mental ill health is real. They are not faking it.

But you don’t believe they have any trouble with it impacting their independence?

I don't know a single person who claims benefits for MH try to stay unwell so they can keep claiming. Not a single one.
MH issues can be insidious. They creep into and affect everything. You can get sectioned and treated against your will. No one chooses that to claim money.
I have tried lots of therapy. I am still not able to function in many ways. I have tried my damn hardest too. Every day is a battle.

I’m not quite sure why you keep mentioning slavery, it’s not really the same as what our society offers

@Chocolatethief thanks. Good to know your experience is different. I did not know there was supported accommodation for people with mental ill health. All I know about is supported accommodation for people with autism. So good to know it exists.
I know a lot of people who have been in hospital with psychosis. I have had psychosis myself. The most I have known outside of hospital, is the crisis team visiting daily and OT visiting daily. So good to know some people get more support.

Exactly - another benefits bore. Yawn. I can't decide what's more tedious - these or the multiple threads lately about eating.

Yet you resent them being supported?

I am not claiming people are trying to stay unwell. I do not think it is deliberate, except rarely maybe?
What I think happens, and I have seen it, is people start to get better then start panicking about getting a job and that their financial situation will get worse, which negatively affects their mental health.

then if companies paid better and bosses were better and looked after their employees etc then people as a whole would be better

People don't improve their mental health by being given 'incentives'. Mental illness, like physical illness. is painful: not an indulgence.

As I said above, many people with mental (and other) health problems could and should work with the right adjustments. But you're making it sound as though mental illness is a sin to be punished.

If many people in work are being underpaid for what they do. then the solution is to pay them better.

If you are, you aren't understanding what you arae reading.

Your utter lack of empathy is chilling.

But they still have few choices.

They can't move away, see other places, travel, meet people daily in their working lives where ideas flourish.

Are they building up assets for their children?
Could they afford a private operation instead of waiting for NHS?
If they wanted to see the pyramids with their own eyes could they?

How big is their diameter of "life"?

They know what they will be doing, where they will be, the diameter they will travel in for the foreseeable future.

They will be living their lives through experiences of their friends and family, not contributing too many stories of their own.

Yes ok something unusual might happen at the supermarket. Who knows?

It's still nothing to be envious of.

I agree work should pay more, it should, and it likely will, things can't be changed overnight it needs to be gradual. NMW should increase slowly more than benefits, as things are, what you pay for (council tax etc) should be proportional to your household income.

And things are slowly progressing to get people into work. Slowly and that is the key thing.

If you are a reliable worker on NMW, you can progress, it might take a few years but you move jobs, move sideways, move up. It gives you purpose, drive, ambition, no matter how small it may seem.

Community events and seeing family is always available to the NMW workers as well, but the potential is no there for benefit claimants. It is for workers. That is the difference.

I understand what I am reading fine thanks.

That comes from an assumption that people are better off on benefits. They are not.

Is their only option minimum wage jobs, what is preventing them from applying for jobs that pay more than the minimum wage?

@frozendaisy You do not understand at all. I have worked since I was 16 and could not afford a private operation. You are talking about middle class people.
Trust me working my low paid job is okay, but it does not really widen my horizons. And no, not everyone progresses.
Middle class people like yourself assume low paid work is a very temporary situation until you are well paid and doing challenging and fun work that exposes you to lots of new experiences and allows you to travel when you want. It is so far from most low paid workers situation.