Most shops are just landfill waiting to happen.

[SummerDaytoNight]

I mean, all are to a point, but I’m talking about the non essential ones.

Our society is engineering its own collapse. We only need food, health, house basics and clothing. And I suppose, technology.

Fast fashion could go. Housing should just be the essentials.

My friend took me into a shop called sostrene grene. It was lovely, but nothing was essential. Most shops are like that.

The horse has bolted, but I wish we could limit the unnecessarily stuff and just have the basics. Im not talking Amish level, but there’s no need for all this waste. It would be so much better if only the essentials were produced.

At the point of production, it’s already basically landfill.

The entitlement and feeling people have a "right to shite" sums it up perfectly.

That is so upsetting.

I've been thinking a lot about this and have been having some 'thought experiments' (I'm not sure if that is exactly the right phrase). I’ve been thing about things that could be done (not saying this is the right way to go, but it we want to make change we have to think about everything).

The economy might suffer, but somehow we need to redefine the economy so that it doesn’t depend on planet ruining growth.

I do think some things could be banned outright. Some thoughts (maybe not good ones, but we have to start somewhere)

Things like plastic grass could be banned. If it’s essential somewhere or other, then maybe a special licence would be needed.

Ban plastic bags. We never had them before, we'll get used to life without them again. The bag tax is not about the environment, it’s about making money.

Fast fashion could be redefined. Maybe brands should only be allowed to produce one or two new items per year. Instead they focus on a staple of basics.

Part of the problem is the constant need for technological betterment. I bought a new washing machine when my old one (which came with the house) died. The choice is overwhelming. I only want one that does a fast wash, cottons, mixed and delicates. This doesn’t seem to exist - they’re full of unnecessary programmes. The new one is far better than the old, though, so I can see why some people might be tempted to upgrade regularly. Maybe white goods manufacturers could be limited to producing 3 good machines: budget, simple and bells and whistles. They should have to last a minimum of 15-20 years (and be repairable). They should have to take old machines back and be in charge of the recycling of their own products.

Car manufacturers. Does the future of the planet need so many models?

Could seasonal stuff be banned (my weakness was Christmas). At first this idea makes me feel sad, but I look at my Christmas collection that I use every year. No. Atter how many times I bring it out, it’s destined for landfill. I certainly like the decorations, but I don’t NEED it.

I suppose I'm suggesting that we need to ban some things outright, no matter if it puts people' noses out of joint. Other things need to be slimmed back.

I'm not saying my ideas are good! But we have to start somewhere…

Essentials over want. Waste not, want not. If 'things' are what make us happy, then we have a bigger problem.

I think younger people, teens, children are not happier living in a world of things. In fact they seem less content.

I know some of these ideas are maybe not good, but I think we need to start to think about what is being PRODUCED. It not about where we choose to shop, but about the sheer amount of unnecessary STUFF.

I walked about a shop yesterday (similar to B&M). I walked around not buying and only came out with the items I needed (2). Me not buying doesn’t help the fact that the (massive) shop was filled to the brim of items that will be landfill in the next few years. Now multiply that one shop over all the 1000s shops over the whole world.

Its sickening.

Perhaps we should be thinking of putting higher import taxes/tariffs on imports from China? If things were more expensive, people would buy less, and there'd be a greater demand on repairing things rather than replacing things. It may also start to make manufacturing within the UK more viable again. Treble whammy. Just have to do it properly and not cack-handed like Trump!

Or just limit what we are allowed to import from China. Products for essential items only. No clothing/ fast fashion (after a period of adjustment). Import the raw materials (as needed) instead, then produce here.

Each country should have to produce as much as they can. Become more self sufficient. Keep importing to the necessary items.

Each country deals with its own waste. No way should we be shipping our waste to poorer countries for them to deal with.

It would make the world more interesting with regional differences instead of carbon copies of items across the globe.

Jobs would have to shift and priorities would have to change. At this rate, the planet is heading for ruin, so we have to do something.

If they weren’t coming from china they'd come
from elsewhere. That doesn’t solve anything imo.

It's almost 10 years since the bag charge was introduced in England. From my experience from working at a supermarket, it did not change the attitude of some customers' habits. They still came into the store without any bags. Or if they went to another shop in the area before and can see they have room to put the 2-3 items in the bag, they bought another bag! What's that all about?

Then on litter picks, myself and fellow wombled find loads of carrier bags with one use.

People need to understand if they bring their own bags, they will be saving about £150 a year. Based on 10 bags a week at 30p each. This is for all shopping, groceries, clothing etc.

Maybe they would come from countries closer to home and limiting air-miles. That’s at least a start. Better rights for workers would also be good.

Just because it’s the wrong answer, it doesn’t stop us looking for the right answer. If we do nothing, nothing will change.

Or just ban the production of new plastic bags. They won’t make money on them anymore. We managed without before. Well manage without again.

Carrier bags are a red herring when you see the sheer scale of plastic wrapping used in supermarkets and chains, i.e. pallet upon pallet of boxes fully wrapped many times, clothes in supermarkets being individually bagged in plastic which is removed before they're put on shelves/racks. Look behind any supermarket or chain store and there are huge stacks of flattened cardboard boxes and huge sacks/boxes of "waste" plastic wrapping.

A few customers wanting new carrier bags is literally a drop in the ocean compared with the plastic waste from packaging between factory/warehouse to the store!

Likewise with home deliveries of furniture, such as sofas, beds, etc - usually wrapped like a mummy in layer upon layer of plastic and often the delivery firm won't unwrap and take it back with them, so the customer is left with virtually a wheelie bin full of plastic!

The carrier bag tax and other stupid initiatives like paper straws instead of plastic ones are just a "sop" to make the gullible public think that steps are being taken. Meanwhile, whilst someone is struggling with a soggy paper straw in McDonalds, there are several pallet loads of "waste" plastic wrapping and cardboard boxes in the utility store behind!

And then we come to other stupidity like the current trend of wrapping suitcases in plastic at airports which seems to have come from Russia/China to prevent them being opened in transit. Again, miles of plastic being used for multiple layers of plastic wrapped around suitcases.

Yet the environmentalists and governments make out it's our fault for wanting a carrier bag or plastic straw!

Oh absolutely. But I wouldn’t call it a red herring. It’s not a 'few' customers, it’s millions of people every day all over the world.

Not pointless, just step 1.

Then absolutely move on to business plastic waste.

Nothing wrong with good quality carrier bags that people can reuse many times for many years. That's what we do. I've still got Woolworths, Thorntons and even C&A carrier bags that we constantly re-use - firms that closed down years ago. Likewise, I've a bundle of all kinds in the car, such as M&S, tesco, Iceland, Sainsbury, Next, - some "bags for life" - most aren't but still last years!

Funnily enough, none of the paper carrier bags we've been given managed to last more than a couple of times before the handles broke, or the bottom falls out or they disintegrate in the rain!

Obviously, there's something wrong with people who can't be arsed to take bags out with them, and have to keep buying new ones, but the vast majority of people seem to be capable of carrying a carrier bag or two with them when they go out shopping. The ones who don't seem to care generally seem to be younger people (who should know better given environmental education in schools these days!) and the likes of tradesmen such as scaffolders, roofers, etc. who really don't care and just bung another carrier or two on the counter for their lunchtime purchases. Some people simply can't be educated!

Why not start with the biggest problems first, i.e. the business waste, and then once the majority of the waste has been reduced, we can move onto the smaller scale things?? Or at least tackle both together?

And just because it’s a drop in the ocean doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be done.

All of us on this thread who are buying less are more of a drop in the ocean compared to big businesses. It doesn’t mean we should stop trying to make a difference though.

I totally agree.

Both together would be my take. I didn’t give an exhaustive list. I just wanted to put forward some ideas.

Until big businesses are forced to change, what the individual does won’t make much difference.

I would argue that cloth bags (made by reusing materials) would be better than plastic or paper.

Paper comes from trees. To use more paper in the future, we need to plan better the plating of more trees. Demand wouldn’t currently meet supply.

I would also argue that there are very very few people who have years old plastic bags.

I definitely think we should be tackling both together. I said before my earlier post was just a few ideas. It certainly wasn’t a comprehensive plan for action and shouldn’t be taken that way.

Paper bags are useless when wet. Go to any town centre or retail park with a Primark when it rains. Many bags fall apart. Plus get people ramming their other shops' purchases in the Primark bags and rips.

Plus some paper bags cannot be recycled to due to plasticky finish on some of the posher bags - Pandora for example.

The excess packaging on clothes when delivered to shops and sofas when delivered to home. How would you like it if these items were delivered with no packaging? You have no idea how dirty the transportation crates etc are or would you like your sofa to be delivered all bashed up?

Plus plastic degrades. When I’ve found old plastic bags (I’ve done a couple of house clearances of relatives in the past couple of years) they just fall apart into bits.

I think cloth (or crochet style) bags are better than paper. There’s enough fabric on the planet to make them.

If I have my car, I can take my trolley to the car and put my shopping straight in the boot. No need for bags at all.

If walking or taking the bus, the good old-fashioned trolley bag works.

If we only look for problems, we’ll never find solutions. The planet needs solutions.

What on Earth did people do before plastic packaging?

How about using waxed (for waterproofing) fabric covers? How about having a supply chain that doesn’t ship my sofa across the globe?

If you only look for problems, you’ll never find the solutions.

It was more wooden crates?

They didn’t buy that much.

They bought locally, seasonally.
no pots of chopped pineapple.

No ready made mash or porridge.

Families used to cook and preserve.

I would support the following:

Agree a total ban on plastic grass. Exemption for community football pitches etc.

Massive import taxes on Shein or Cider or any of the other shitty fashion companies, and tat-merchants like T*mu, and all the shite imported to fill seasonal aisles in stores. Like a 200% or more levy, ringfenced for environmental offsetting or to support local businesses. If your shitty £5 dress from Shein suddenly costs £15, you might think twice about how much you're buying.

Increased/doubling VAT for any other brands like H&M or Primark unless they change their business model to stop the churn of waste and constant new products.

Tax breaks as there are in France for repairing items rather than chucking away and buying new.

Total ban on posting social media content containing the word "haul" unless you are operating a trucking company.

Sounds like the way forward!