45k salary entirely eaten by childcare

[Sofiewoo]

Granted salaries aren’t what they were only a handful of years ago but aibu to be shocked that my 45k salary is now entirely eaten by childcare and getting to work??
I figured if you are earning in the 20s you would assume that but not mid 40s!

I’m trying to weigh up whether to just take the next year and a half off instead of working for nothing. I know, pension, career blah blah but it’s mentally very difficult to juggle drop offs, work schedules and sickness but be no better off financially at the end of the month.

Did anyone else not realise it was a bad as this?

@Needspaceforlego

Yes I know but the nursery will have to, to sustain its business. This is how the government pits parents versus nurseries.

Offer ‘free’ hours that are unsustainable for the nursery and expect the nursery to cough up the deficit.

Nurseries then have to up their fee to remain open so parents have to pay anyway.

Government holds up its hands ‘but we’re giving you free hours!”

Also, there’s a huge expectation on nurseries to work long hours, lowly paid so that parents can work. If they charge a fair fee, in OP’s case £8 per hour with food included, they’re called extortionate.

The governments ‘free hours’ don’t help much and make parents angry and feel entitled to practically free or childcare for pennies.

I’m just going to say it.

The government is so out of touch with daily struggles of families, offering ‘solutions’ and ‘free hours’ that makes for a messy system that doesn’t benefit parents at all. Or help to keep nurseries in business.

So, with this in mind, if you earn enough (not talking about those who qualify for benefits) but still can’t afford or want to sacrifice your pay, to pay a decent and very fair fee to nursery, don’t have children or at least don’t have two in quick succession and expect nurseries to fund your life choices.

Be prepared to sacrifice for a few years if you do, simple.

Yes - you leave work and travel back to pick them up or your partner does if you have one.

I can totally see why couples are attracted to having children close in age. In theory they would be able to do things together and play with each other as they grow up.

But tough on family finances in those early years and the same at the other end supporting two children through Uni or apprenticeships at the same time.

Waiting until people can afford children isn't ideal either. Around 30 is probably the best time to be having kids. Established in career and not too old. And I say that as an older Mum.

I honestly don't know what the answer is. But it can't be just putting more burden on to the tax payer either.

Maybe the answer is for more nurseries and childcare providers to be not for profit organisations.

You’re the only person I’ve ever come across who is thinks gross is more beneficial than net.

I’ve explained the numbers.

If you’re so literal that you can’t comprehend that when I say my entire salary is taken up by childcare I’m blatantly referring to net then I can’t help you. You’re choosing to be difficult for some weird reason.

The reality is most women have a relatively short childbearing window though, that needs to be acknowledged.
They go to uni, get into the working world, develop their career and then when they’ve bought a home and established themselves they try for a baby. That then means it’s not overly realistic to plan a 6+ year age gap.
If women had babies earlier they could then afford childcare even less.

As I mentioned before, we shouldn’t be allowing private companies to manage what should be state childcare. It’s always going to be more expensive as premises, CEOs, shareholders need to be paid for out of that funding.
Now that two wages are needed to manage a household, early years childcare isn’t a choice any longer, it’s a must to make ends meet.

Can you imagine if all schools were suddenly sold off and became private?

I'm north of the border so schools are very much still under Local Authorities.

But are the English academy chains not pretty much private profit making organisations? Or at least that's the impression I get from MN

It's just ludicrous how much of UK infrastructure is under private control, schools, nursing homes, water, rail, power generation.
While SNP might want to flag wave about Scottish Water the real reason it's not been sold of is because Loch Katrine that supply's Glasgow - was donated to the People of Glasgow - therefore couldn't be sold!

You can keep repeating yourself but it still won't make it true!

You're being ridiculous. £45k salary doesn't mean £45k in your pocket to spend on childcare (or anything else).
OP has provided a breakdown of her take-home pay vs her nursery costs earlier in the thread - why would you keep questioning this?
The simple fact remains that her salary comes in and it all goes straight out again to cover nursery bill plus her costs of getting to work. It's reasonable enough to ask "why would I bother?"

@Needspaceforlego

Asking nurseries to care for our DC while we go to work and not make any profit is exactly my point of how unreasonable parents are expecting business to care for children for free.

The answer is proper government funding for those that really cannot pay and for those that can to make tough choices for a year.

Expecting private nurseries to operate for non profit is breathtakingly entitled.

There is huge private demand for early years childcare, how would a state run nursery work and would most people event want that.

There should be the option for single parents/low earners.

Some of these replies show just how much people really think their childcare needs to be free, with a lovely setting and food, happy well pair staff with low staff turnover. Wouldn’t it be great.

And I know how much it makes sense to have children close together but if you want that and for them to be well cared for, you have to pay. So if it doesn’t make sense to work, then don’t, or do. But stop expecting not to pay a reasonable fee.

Why is that unreasonable though? There are plenty of things that most of the public shouldn’t be for profit, healthcare, utilities infrastructure, water, transport, education.

Expecting private nurseries to operate for non profit is breathtakingly entitled.

No one is saying this, people are taking issue with the fact that it’s an essential industry and it’s a sham that it’s totally within the private sector.

And I know how much it makes sense to have children close together but if you want that and for them to be well cared for, you have to pay.
Why though? You seem to be missing the fact that the UK is the only country in Europe that expects childcare to be funded by such a huge percentage of take home pay. Childcare structures across Europe are totally different and are considered more of a public service.
Considering the cost of basic living in the UK is so high for most people they need to sustain 2 incomes to fund a family in the long term.
Putting women in a scenario where they have to give up work only to fall behind, when they don’t want to is crazy. Those women will be lower tax contributors for the rest of their life due to not being able to access affordable childcare.

You just keep repeating “you have to” but the whole point is actually the system doesn’t have to operate like this at at all.

You miss my point.
The Afterschool i use is a 'not for profit' organisation, technically a charity but it doesn't fund raise like a charity would.

It charges fees like any other Afterschool.
It has a Board made up of parents on a voluntary basis. And paid staff.

No real reason nurseries couldn't be done on the same basis but it needs a bit of help getting this type of thing off the ground and a good manager who is able to deal with the day to day stuff.

There is also no reason why councils don't run more nurseries on a 50 week a year basis like private nurseries do.

There are more ways for childcare to operate other than a private chains charging high fees and making huge profits.

@Sofiewoo

No, I agree with you that our government is a sham and should offer more help to parents that are genuinely struggling.

But they don’t or won’t.

Hence why millions of families take the cut for the early years will is a personal choice.

You and many other posters are making out that childcare fees are extortionate in private nurseries and that I take issue with if you break it down. My CM charges more than your nursery and we also help out with weekly fruit boxes/donating toys. Yes it’s a hit on finances but very worth it for DC to be well cared for.

@Needspaceforlego

I definitely agree we need more provision.

But last paragraph proves my point. How much do you per hour for your DC to attend a private nursery? Why do you expect nursery owners/workers not to make a profit for the services they’re offering?

But they are extortionate when you consider the fact that they are one of the highest fees out of any developed country!
The UK has one of the most expensive childcare systems in the world, the only country in the OECD with a higher spending on childcare relative to income is Switzerland.
The UK is literally 2nd out of 42 countries in terms of childcare as a proportion of income.
It’s completely disingenuous to keep saying it’s not expensive.

@Sofiewoo

If you consider £8 an hour with food included then that’s ridiculous.

Comparing countries is chalk and cheese because with other countries the government helps parents with childcare, which is fantastic but here they don’t.

So you’re confusing the two matters. Yes government should provide more help.

They should but don’t, so you use a private nursery that charges £8 per hour for the hours on top of the free hours you’re given.

Why should the private nurseries not operate or charge a fair fee because governments don’t help as they do in other countries? It’s not their fault is it, they provide a service that parents need.

So just to be clear YES the government should help, NO private nurseries shouldn’t have to charge you a ridiculously low rate.

Why would you expect a charity to make huge profits?

Staff are paid slightly higher than both private sector and council staff.

@AnnaBalfour So just to be clear YES the government should help, NO private nurseries shouldn’t have to charge you a ridiculously low rate

Again though, literally no one is saying that. You’re repeating the same point over and over that no one has ever said.

The majority of posters are talking about the childcare SYSTEM not individual providers.

Or nurseries could be run by council as a paid service, not necessarily free but again there's a difference between a service covering its cost and a business making profits.

@Sofiewoo

No, don’t twist my words. At no point have I said the system works or is good, I have agreed always that it is not. You don’t agree with my point as we can see, that your private childcare provider isn’t ‘extortionate’. You don’t like the answer to that do you. Doesn’t fit in with your narrative of childcare being extortionate when faced with how much you actually pay to them.

@Needspaceforlego That would be amazing

In an ideal world, parents would get to keep more of their money and the government would subsidise childcare properly for the good of the nation, falling birth rates, so that parents don’t feel penalised for having children.

Especially though for single parents/low earners.

There’s a big difference between 24/7 and being out of the house and away from their parents between 7.30-6pm every weekday.

Judging from threads on MN, the other problem with this is that on the weekends/days off the parents can’t tolerate their kids very well because they’re not used to spending so much time together.

I find it so sad the number of parents on here who are justifying their decision to satisfy their own needs by saying ‘my baby does things at nursery they wouldn’t do at home’.

Face it: YOU don’t want to look after your babies. YOU want more money. YOU don’t want to be bored.

Don’t pretend it’s for the baby’s benefit.

It is true though. It’s a very, very well accepted area of neuroscience.

Saying there’s no ‘evidence’ being at nursery harms babies’ long term outcomes doesn’t mean it’s not true.

@Wantitalltogoaway

A lot of mums/parents really don’t have the choice.

For the ones that do, it’s not unusual where I live for children to attend full time nursery (8-6) and then get a weekend nanny or be dropped off at the crèche at the gym/golf/tennis. I personally do feel sorry for those little ones.