Afghan women being denied refuge by government

[Maitri108]

It's very disturbing that Afghan women are having their claims turned down. We're all aware of how women can't work or speak in public. Human rights defenders are in grave danger and are being told that they don't face persecution if they go back.

26 women in 2024 had their claims rejected which is absolutely appalling.

I thought everyone who entered this country was at significant risk in their homeland according to MN.

Actually I might be. Why are people assuming these women won't be able to help? Many are highly trained medics, teachers, nurses and engineers for example. We need people like this. We need more women working supporting the economy.

Because they can't get out of Afghanistan. They can't go anywhere without a male chaperone. Pakistan is sending Afghan women back.

The only part I'm really highlighting is the assumptions there must be a really valid reason. Based on the info so far ( which could be seriously lacking of course), that is a terribly scary justification and I don't believe she will have this safety net as proposed.

I don't know enough regards appealing and costs associated with that.

This again aligns with all these other examoles in society where appeals demonstrate appalling behaviour by our institutions who then have their decisions overturned at even greater cost. Because they lie and gaslight systemically.

And I must stress, I feel uncomfortable about what is happening right now. I understand why people are so upset.

I truly don't know the answer.

A better system, a more robust efficient system of assessing current claims would be great. How much that costs, I don't know. We also can't just stall new arrivals whilst we process so that current cases can be treated appropriately. 🤷‍♀️

Oh stop. 🤦 I was having the conversation the other day that how will we ever really know unless we have access to every case ourselves directly.

I don't trust much of what we're told so it's really difficult to discern.

I watch those annoying YouTube videos going into hotels and see from those that we have hundreds, probably thousands of men. They're all men. I then think, what about the women? I'm more concerned about them and this doesn't feel right. But we have no idea what's going on in these cases because we are lied to so much about all things.

I also have to accept some of my reaction is maybe prejudice. If I lived in these coastal towns with these hotels, based on what I've seen - I'd really feel uncomfortable. I know I wouldn't if they were just women alone. That itself may be naive.

These are the people we should be actively helping and helping their next generation of boys not be like the men in their current generation via education.

You really think the current generation of men don’t know they’re abusing their women?

These poor women refused yet two Afghan male asylum seekers this week have been convicted of of two separate sec attacks in my town. It’s beggars belief it really is

There is no possible support system that can protect an Afghan woman who fought for women's rights and worked with Western governments to do so, should she return to Afghanistan. None.

There can be no hidden factors in her story that make the Home Office decision make sense.

If we make simply being female from a country such as Afghanistan a reason for asylum then are we also happy for their families to come over including their male relatives? You know the ones causing the problem?

We can't take everyone.

"Simply" being female from a country such as X has been a reason for asylum for decades (cf. Shah & Islam).

Then we need to offer asylum to every woman being repressed in every country the world over. And we just can’t. Unfortunately it isn’t practical for a tiny island to provide refuge to the entire planet’s repressed women. Other countries need to provide asylum too.

No one is suggesting we take in every single asylum seeker.

Colombia, Germany, Iran, Turkey and Uganda have almost one-third of the world’s refugees

Iran 3.8 million
Turkey 3.1 million
Colombia 2.8 million
Germany 2.7 million
Uganda 1.7 million

69 % of refugees live in countries neighbouring their countries of origin.

https://www.unhcr.org/refugee-statistics

Well, not necessarily. For a group to be considered a PSG they have to share an innate or immutable characteristic and be perceived as different (i.e. worse) by society in that country. There is legislation, policy, and legal precedent to guide decision makers for each country. A lot of work and research goes into determining whether women in any given country meet the criteria for designation as MPSG - which is why I'm saying that either the DM made the wrong choice or there is some additional evidence we don't know about.

Good, we can't take any more. We should be helping our own homeless, drug addicted and exploited women first

I agree with this.

Yep. If we were a large empty homes haven with our own house sorted out it would be different. But poverty is 50% in some areas. We can’t take in any more when we won’t even look after our own

Maybe they could pretend to be Ukranian.

Help the homeless how? They’re likely already resident in a hostel where they’re smashing the rooms up and assaulting the staff. They don’t want help.

Wow! So you are basically putting a value on a life, depending on how skilled they are? We take a tiny number of asylum seekers every year, 85% of applications are accepted and you clearly don’t have a scooby of how the health and social care industry and hospitality industry are struggling without these unskilled workers coming here. Of course we should accept anyone who is being persecuted. Maybe you should move to Syria, Afghanistan, Eritrea, Albania or Sudan. It doesn’t matter if they are skilled or not. Many die on the journey to Europe and more on the routes across Europe. To risk everything crossing the Channel shows just how desperate they are. Would you be accepted here with skills?

So you would work for free, would you?

What's the problem In Albania then for people to need asylum?

As a female British citizen it seems to me vanishingly unlikely that these women will be a threat to me physically or promote an ideology of denying humanity to women that reflects where they’ve come from. Yes they’d have to be supported but hopefully can be assisted to be self supporting in time.

I cannot say the same for males from that country or Iran who make up the vast majority of ‘asylum seekers ‘ in the U.K. as recent figures have shown. We also know from data kept in other countries that such men maintain the attitudes of their homeland to women long term and commit substantial levels of crime.

In my view we should prioritise female refugees. Even if you don’t agree, Afghanistan is a special case. Women there have no human rights - they are slaves. If you can’t work, have no rights over your own body or property, can’t leave your home without master’s permission and escort, have no ability to secure medical treatment etc - you’re a slave. It depresses me to see the difference in how the west rallied to condemn and assist bring down Apartheid- and yet it’s crickets for Afghanistan’s women. It seems that slavery only matters when it affects men.

This. It breaks my heart hearing all of the talented women who were achieving so much now being locked indoors and governed by men with barely any education, just guns. Even their family members get killed if they support women. We are crying out for midwives, nurses, doctors, nursery workers and teachers. We really should be more open to the women suffering in Afghanistan who want to help others but are imprisoned in their own homes.

We are crying out for midwives, nurses, doctors, nursery workers and teachers. We really should be more open to the women suffering in Afghanistan who want to help others but are imprisoned in their own homes

Since as you rightly say they've been imprisoned in their own homes I'm not sure how effective they could be in a professional role, @GetMeOutOfMeta, especially when they'll have had no recent relevant experience

Of course that doesn't mean we shouldn't help where possible, but it's been tried repeatedly and the reality is that their men don't want them to be helped, or to have western interference at all

As a PP said it's also worth bearing in mind what happens when we admit women who later apply for these exact men to join them. If we refuse them the shroud wavers will certainly howl that they're being disadvantaged, but is replicating their society in the UK really advisable?

This is where I get so torn. We have people in dire situations here as it is. I'm very much shifting positions on these issues.

What I find difficult and it's where I question humanity is when I read words like ' good' as you've written. Almost like a sense of glee.

So I agree with the clear understandable frustration of people here right now. Yet, if one has any understanding of Afghanistan and being a woman, especially this woman and her background, it's akin to sending her back to her death.

If there were some way we could enforcibly halt all movement in order to get a grip of those in the system ( accurately and appropriately) I'd be more inclined to support that.

Being the island we are, I really don't know how it would ever be achievable.

Farage is a tool pretending he's like the everyday man. He isn't. In their proposals they talk about managing this with absolutely no feasible realistic explanation as to how. People will buy this.

No I don't have the answers btw.