Page 39 | To think too many people are happy to live off benefits forever?

BritishQueue · 2025-04-03T16:51:36+00:00

Okay, I know this is a touchy subject here on MN, but I need to ask, AIBU to think that too many people are just choosing to stay on universal credit rather than work? Obviously, I’m not talking about people who genuinely can’t work - disabilities, carers, etc (even though a lot of those who claim to be unfit for work are perfectly capable, and I’ve seen “carers” for people who don’t actually need any care…). But I know multiple people who are completely able-bodied and yet have no intention of ever getting a job. They say things like “it’s not worth it” or “I’d be worse off working,” and honestly, I don’t get it. I work full-time, pay tax, and yet I see people getting rent paid, extra handouts, and still managing holidays and luxuries I can’t afford. Not to mention that a lot of women think the government should subsidise their SAHM lifestyle. I just don’t understand how it’s fair? Surely benefits should be a safety net, not a lifestyle choice? AIBU?

HueyLouisAndDewey · 10/04/2025 11:29

ruethewhirl · 10/04/2025 11:00

Absolutely this.

Something a lot of people don’t take into account IME (including, if this thread is anything to go by, some people who have disabilities themselves) is that symptoms fluctuate. Personally I’d have thought this would be a no-brainer, but going by some of the comments here and on recent disability threads in general, it doesn’t seem to be.

When you see a person with a condition or disability out and about outside of a work context (i.e. somewhere they're not compelled to be), you are almost certainly seeing them on one of their better days, so it’s very likely they will seem relatively functional. What you’re not seeing is how much it might be taking out of them to manage this, or what they have to deal with on days of extreme pain or other difficulties, when perhaps they are bedbound and/or barely functional. By definition you are not seeing them at their worst, because at their worst they are not able to be out and about. I think this is probably where a lot of the ‘you seem fine to me’ type ignorance is coming from among those who are lucky enough not to be familiar with what it is like to be disabled or chronically ill, or who are managing their own issues so 'why can't others do the same?' But sadly I suppose these are the same people who don’t want to challenge their own prejudices/don't want anyone else to be able to access support because they can't.

Accommodations for disability and chronic conditions, if they are to be of any use, need to be tailored to safety-net the worst days, when a person is unable to cope without assistance. But according to some, they're swinging the lead if they have better/more functional days at all, it seems. How very dare anyone claim benefits if they have any days when they would theoretically be able to work, even though in practice they probably couldn't because on the bad days they can't leave the bed let alone the house? Off to the Job Centre queue with them, where they will apparently find no end of jobs that will not only accommodate their conditions but also miraculously heal them, because good honest toil, etc. If only they'd known this all along, eh?

Honestly, this place sometimes.

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Well said ! I wish some posters would read The Spoon Theory

TigerRag · 10/04/2025 11:30

ruethewhirl · 10/04/2025 11:28

Assuming that job, or something similarly suitable, can actually be found.

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I looked at working from home jobs out of interest. They were all pip assessors or language translation. Both of which you need qualifications that I don't have

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 10/04/2025 11:34

Wise words, @ruethewhirl.

Wildflowers99 · 10/04/2025 11:34

ruethewhirl · 10/04/2025 11:28

Assuming that job, or something similarly suitable, can actually be found.

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Here we go again.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 10/04/2025 11:37

Are you disagreeing with @ruethewhirl, @Wildflowers99? Do you think that the sort of jobs she outlined in her post - that can provide accommodations for a disabled person's worst days - are readily available and plentiful? Or have I misread your post?

ruethewhirl · 10/04/2025 11:38

Wildflowers99 · 10/04/2025 07:16

Necessity, or lack thereof.

Think how absolutely awful things were in the dark ages. Living in a straw house exposed to the elements, back breaking work every day, the deaths of nearly all your children, disease lurking and never knowing which day would be your last.

I really doubt a tenth, or a quarter, of people at that time were ‘mentally incapable of working’. I imagine there were very few people hiding in their huts riddled with anxiety, because not working or doing the day’s chores wasn’t an option.

We’ve rightly tried to make life as comfortable as possible, and we’ve come a long way really. But the Overton window has shifted and rather than comparing our existences to others throughout history, we compare it to a perfect existence which has never really existed as the norm for people. We have too much time on our hands now to dwell on bad memories or perceived issues.

I think a degree of necessity rather than providing endless safety nets will be the only thing to change people’s attitude to work.

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You seem to be implying that people can just snap out of mental illness if something more pressing is taking place that forces them to do so?

Obviously people can get themselves into unhealthy/unhelpful mental states without it meaning they have a mental health condition generally, and be able to snap themselves out of it when they need to. But yet again it's not the sort of neat one-size-fits-all situation you seem to be craving. I should think mental illness was absolutely rife in the dark ages given the conditions of the times, it just wasn't recognised as such. I think many people were probably 'hiding in their huts riddled with anxiety', to be perfectly honest. Either that or committing suicide.

It's a nice elaborate picture you painted there to get around the fact that you appear to think people with mental health issues should just pull themselves together, but it doesn't disguise your intolerance.

ruethewhirl · 10/04/2025 11:39

Wildflowers99 · 10/04/2025 11:34

Here we go again.

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Yes, here we go again, because it's a valid question you seem either unwilling or unable to answer.

Wildflowers99 · 10/04/2025 11:50

ruethewhirl · 10/04/2025 11:39

Yes, here we go again, because it's a valid question you seem either unwilling or unable to answer.

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Answer what? Apply for jobs until you get something and if you don’t, keep applying. This defeatist attitude just seems lazy.

TigerRag · 10/04/2025 11:52

Wildflowers99 · 10/04/2025 11:50

Answer what? Apply for jobs until you get something and if you don’t, keep applying. This defeatist attitude just seems lazy.

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Where are these jobs? My disability varies a lot. Do you really want to employ someone who constantly calls in sick because they've got a migraine or had another vertigo attack and can't stand up?

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 10/04/2025 11:53

So you DO think there is a plethora of accessible jobs out there, ready and waiting to make accommodations for a disabled person's worst day, @Wildflowers99! That just seems ignorant, to me.

Maybe, just maybe, the people telling you that these jobs don't exist have applied over and over again for job after job after job, only to be knocked back in favour of able bodied applicants, and they are speaking from experience, rather than supposition.

Wildflowers99 · 10/04/2025 11:54

ruethewhirl · 10/04/2025 11:38

You seem to be implying that people can just snap out of mental illness if something more pressing is taking place that forces them to do so?

Obviously people can get themselves into unhealthy/unhelpful mental states without it meaning they have a mental health condition generally, and be able to snap themselves out of it when they need to. But yet again it's not the sort of neat one-size-fits-all situation you seem to be craving. I should think mental illness was absolutely rife in the dark ages given the conditions of the times, it just wasn't recognised as such. I think many people were probably 'hiding in their huts riddled with anxiety', to be perfectly honest. Either that or committing suicide.

It's a nice elaborate picture you painted there to get around the fact that you appear to think people with mental health issues should just pull themselves together, but it doesn't disguise your intolerance.

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Well I have OCD (diagnosed by NHS psychiatrist). I also have a v serious health condition which will likely kill me eventually. I could claim benefits and stay at home all day, but I’m certain I would decline into a state of helplessness as we’ve discussed here.

Wildflowers99 · 10/04/2025 11:54

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 10/04/2025 11:53

So you DO think there is a plethora of accessible jobs out there, ready and waiting to make accommodations for a disabled person's worst day, @Wildflowers99! That just seems ignorant, to me.

Maybe, just maybe, the people telling you that these jobs don't exist have applied over and over again for job after job after job, only to be knocked back in favour of able bodied applicants, and they are speaking from experience, rather than supposition.

Edited

No. I think there are a variety of jobs out there with varying levels of support and it’s up to us to be practical and make the best of it.

Ffsdgw · 10/04/2025 12:02

TigerRag · 10/04/2025 11:25

Just because you know one person who supposedly spends their money on a holiday doesn't mean everyone does and doesn't mean it should be cut

I spend mine on a few days away each year. But there is a disability related reason as to why

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I pay for my own holidays. The taxpayer shouldn't pay for someone's holiday. Just shows that this individual person could be fine with a PIP cut.

southwestmama · 10/04/2025 12:08

I'm on UC at the moment alongside working part-time (single mum to an autistic 5 year old and part time student), and it's definitely not something I want to be on forever. As my son grows up and I've achieved my degree I have every intention to be working full time and not having to be on universal credit. I don't advertise to people in my real life that I'm on UC, the stigma from people is just awful and when I do disclose it, I can sometimes feel the judgment from others just from their face or body language and it's not something I want to continue through my life.

ruethewhirl · 10/04/2025 12:20

Wildflowers99 · 10/04/2025 11:50

Answer what? Apply for jobs until you get something and if you don’t, keep applying. This defeatist attitude just seems lazy.

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It's defeatist when people use it as an excuse not to even bother trying, I agree. (And just to make sure we're clear, I'm not talking about myself; I have a full-time job, though am on annual leave this week, before anyone comments on how much time I've been spending on MN. 🙄)

But I am not talking about those who simply . Of course everyone who can work to some degree or other would be doing so, in a perfect-world scenario.

But this isn't a perfect world. Finding oneself in a scenario where one applies and applies, and just doesn't get taken on, is a common problem, regardless how qualified, experienced or good at interviews one might be. Throw in a disability, and yes, it can be harder, as you presumably know yourself judging by what you've shared with us about your own life. All I am saying is that I wish people would stop assuming that if someone can't get a job then they must just not be trying hard enough.

ruethewhirl · 10/04/2025 12:29

Wildflowers99 · 10/04/2025 11:54

Well I have OCD (diagnosed by NHS psychiatrist). I also have a v serious health condition which will likely kill me eventually. I could claim benefits and stay at home all day, but I’m certain I would decline into a state of helplessness as we’ve discussed here.

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I am sorry that is your situation, and I mean that sincerely. But some of your posts do give the impression that you think because you are able to work regardless, there's no 'excuse' for other people? Presumably you are well aware that ability to work through illness and disability is contingent on a ton of factors that vary from person to person (and sometimes from day to day), because presumably that applies to you too. And this is why some of the views you've espoused on MN puzzle me - I'd have thought you'd have more empathy/understanding for the issues disability poses in a work context, but you often come off as having less.

ruethewhirl · 10/04/2025 12:33

ruethewhirl · 10/04/2025 12:20

It's defeatist when people use it as an excuse not to even bother trying, I agree. (And just to make sure we're clear, I'm not talking about myself; I have a full-time job, though am on annual leave this week, before anyone comments on how much time I've been spending on MN. 🙄)

But I am not talking about those who simply . Of course everyone who can work to some degree or other would be doing so, in a perfect-world scenario.

But this isn't a perfect world. Finding oneself in a scenario where one applies and applies, and just doesn't get taken on, is a common problem, regardless how qualified, experienced or good at interviews one might be. Throw in a disability, and yes, it can be harder, as you presumably know yourself judging by what you've shared with us about your own life. All I am saying is that I wish people would stop assuming that if someone can't get a job then they must just not be trying hard enough.

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'But I am not talking about those who simply .' should have said 'But I am not talking about those who simply don't bother', obviously (just spotted that too late to edit, got distracted by the phone!)

Locutus2000 · 10/04/2025 12:41

28andgreat · 09/04/2025 16:18

I don't understand why people get so defensive about benefits posts.

The OP clearly stated they were not talking about those who fairly claim it due to disabilities etc etc. They are discussing the ones who ARE defrauding and abusing the system. People start hounding the OP straight away WITHOUT even reading the post..

As many of us are UK Tax Payers, why are we not allowed to be annoyed that some people USE that tax payer money to not work for no other reason then they don't want to. And whether people want to accept it or not - they exist.
That is a very worthy cause to be annoyed about?!

I have a family member like this, has 4 children (first at 17) because she openly admits she does not want to work. 3 more children later, She has a brand new HA home, with all bills etc entirely funded by Benefits. None of her children have additional needs, she simply has another as soon as the youngest is able to have funded hours as that would mean she is asked to visit the Job Centre.

People fiddle the system because they are lazy, the same way people use the system correctly because they need it.

LET PEOPLE BE ANNOYED ABOUT IT!!!

None of her children have additional needs

Surely she is affected by a) the benefit cap and b) the two child limit for the additional element?

Locutus2000 · 10/04/2025 12:44

HaddyAbrams · 09/04/2025 17:13

Bit surely no one (unless they're a complete cunt) actually thinks the state should do nothing?

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There seems to be no shortage of complete cunts on this thread (and every other one).

BlessedBeTheGroot · 10/04/2025 12:46

Locutus2000 · 10/04/2025 12:44

There seems to be no shortage of complete cunts on this thread (and every other one).

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I have noticed the same few posters on the benefits threads. They are not on benefits themselves and seem to post goady stuff on all of them about people with ND and mental health issues.
I wish we could block people on here.

HaddyAbrams · 10/04/2025 12:52

Locutus2000 · 10/04/2025 12:41

None of her children have additional needs

Surely she is affected by a) the benefit cap and b) the two child limit for the additional element?

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Let's not let the facts get in the way of a good benefit bashing post though!

Locutus2000 · 10/04/2025 13:10

MistressoftheDarkSide · 09/04/2025 19:14

Honestly the writing is on the wall about the way people are being trained to think.

People at the lower end of the socio economic scale are being painted as the sole reason why the world economy is in turmoil. It's an easy broad stroke target. Disabled people shouldn't have children. If relatives can't work and care for their vulnerable and elderly relatives, the state should do nothing. It's all beginning to sound suspiciously like history repeating itself. The lack of humanity displayed by some posters on this thread is quite chilling.

Just waiting for the scoffing, rolling eye emojis and the invocation of Godwins Law, but some of the replies on here illustrate exactly how one European nation were persuaded to commit genocide.

I don't think, in my 56 years, I have ever been quite so disgusted, or fearful of the direction the world is going. When Elon Musk did his "awkward my heart to yours" salute it was no fucking accident. It was a signal that dark days are coming. And with the proliferation of social media and 24 hour online bilge, encouraging demonisation of whichever group is flavour of the month, and no examination of how we truly got here, which is due to monopolies, asset stripping and self serving power grabbing by the elites, we live in dangerous times.

I keep hearing that poem in my head..... and then they came for me, and there was no-one left to challenge it (sic).

Just waiting for the scoffing, rolling eye emojis and the invocation of Godwins Law, but some of the replies on here illustrate exactly how one European nation were persuaded to commit genocide.

Godwin himself has stated in recent years that it's fine to draw an analogy with the Nazis when people are behaving like nazis.

28andgreat · 10/04/2025 13:14

Locutus2000 · 10/04/2025 12:41

None of her children have additional needs

Surely she is affected by a) the benefit cap and b) the two child limit for the additional element?

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I am going to assume so - We are not close enough to be discussing ins and outs of finances.

I know she receives CMS from 1 of the children's father, I am unsure of the other one.

She doesn't appear to use her children as a 'cash cow' - more so that she doesn't have to work because they are too young to receive funded hours so they don't pressure her to search. This will now change given that the funded hours are being introduced at 9 months, she hasn't discussed her next steps.

Don't get me wrong, she is not living a life of luxury by any means, but she doesn't care. She just does not want to work.

Lovelysausagedogscrumpy · 10/04/2025 13:16

Ffsdgw · 10/04/2025 11:23

Someone I know used their PIP money for a trip to America. Which goes to show, it can be cut a bit.

Not for everyone. The sweeping generalisations here are staggering. Not all disability is the same, hence not all disabled people will spend their PIP in the same way.

Lovelysausagedogscrumpy · 10/04/2025 13:24

Ffsdgw · 10/04/2025 12:02

I pay for my own holidays. The taxpayer shouldn't pay for someone's holiday. Just shows that this individual person could be fine with a PIP cut.

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Could it be that PIP pays for disability related costs so that she can save for a holiday ? Or are you suggesting that disabled people aren’t entitled to one ? Because that’s a different discussion. I have said several times across several of these always depressing and infuriating threads, that unless you live with someone 24/7 365 days a year, are medically qualified to understand and assess the effects of their condition, are privy to what is on their benefit claim, as well as how it’s been treated by DWP, and have a working knowledge of how the benefit assessment system works, you are absolutely not qualified to sit in judgement as to whether someone qualifies for benefit or not. Because you know of one benefit claimant who manages their money efficiently enough to afford a holiday (and possibly has others contributing that you don’t know about) does not mean in any way shape or form, that the benefit can be cut for others.