To think too many people are happy to live off benefits forever?

[BritishQueue]

Okay, I know this is a touchy subject here on MN, but I need to ask, AIBU to think that too many people are just choosing to stay on universal credit rather than work?

Obviously, I’m not talking about people who genuinely can’t work - disabilities, carers, etc (even though a lot of those who claim to be unfit for work are perfectly capable, and I’ve seen “carers” for people who don’t actually need any care…). But I know multiple people who are completely able-bodied and yet have no intention of ever getting a job. They say things like “it’s not worth it” or “I’d be worse off working,” and honestly, I don’t get it. I work full-time, pay tax, and yet I see people getting rent paid, extra handouts, and still managing holidays and luxuries I can’t afford. Not to mention that a lot of women think the government should subsidise their SAHM lifestyle.

I just don’t understand how it’s fair? Surely benefits should be a safety net, not a lifestyle choice? AIBU?

Shit!!!!!!

So why aren’t we making corporations pay the tax they’re due instead of punishing the disabled ?

If anyone wants a total impartial view of the current state of the UK government’s tax and spend position the Director of the IFS Paul Johnson has an excellent book called Follow The Money which details why we cannot go on just accepting a vastly inflating welfare bill.

Frankly I'm already worried that suicides might start to happen as a result of all the prejudice and plain old ignorance disabled people are seeing directed at them at the moment. Definitely on MN, and doubtless elsewhere around social media. These are really awful times for some people.

This.
Our benefits get cut, and your local shop will miss out on the cat food and Blossom Hill wine purchases from you 😁
My local independent cafe will miss out my custom.
It will have a huge knock on effect.
People on benefits put pretty much all of their money back into the economy.

Erm, OK ... all hail the billionaires? 🤔

Because they are international companies. It doesn’t work like that. You can’t just whack a tax on multinational companies without some other government getting annoyed and harming your government with a different tax.

Yes.

There was a thread on here last week where OP was suicidal about the cuts. Got told to get a job etc. Thread got pulled.
It has been really bad on here, and I do think some people (def on this thread) are enjoying people being distressed over it. They think they will never be one of "those" people claiming benefits. It can happen to anyone at any time.

No I would be happy with a job that paid my bills without benefits it would also need to fit around my caring responsibilities over two households

The number of people on benefits has skyrocketed in the UK since Covid. This hasn’t happened in other countries. The number of people of working age in employment in other countries has gone back to pre covid levels. We aren’t suddenly sicker as a nation. There are people pretending to be sick that aren’t. If I was one of the genuinely sick people, I’d be livid, not with the government but with the cheats.

Because like all recent governments they are primarily concerned with being in bed with large corporations and feathering their own nests. They are not in power to do public service, they are career politicians who take handouts and kick backs.

What they should be implementing is getting the property market under control., not building their own property portfolios subsidised by the government.

They should be focusing on making employers treat people fairly and pay them enough that government top ups aren't needed. Big corporations are primarily concerned with paying shareholders and CEOs, not their employees.

There should be proper analysis of the impact digitisation and AI is having on the job market.

They should be analysing what factors are contributing to the apparently declining health of the population, both physical and mental, and both of those feed into each other.

They should be properly examing the cumulative effects of environmental factors such as pollution, food additives etc which while taken individually might meet "safety standard" could be contributing to a whole host of things, such as the statistic that 1 in 2 people are predicted to suffer from cancer.

They should be looking at the decline of town centres where properties are owned by foreign companies happy to let them stand empty because of tax breaks that allow them to do so, regardless of the impact on communities.

They should look again at business rates which in some areas are doubling and forcing small businesses to close.

They should re-evaluate education and level that playing field. The insistence on University education as the holy grail for all is unrealistic and skews the employment market in terms of entry level expectations.

That's just off the top of my head.

I have enormous sympathy with disabled people and fully support a welfare state, but I think there’s a difference between having a condition and being all-out disabled.

Can you explain what you mean by having a condition and being ‘all out disabled’ because despite over twenty years as a disability outreach worker and being severely disabled myself I have no frame of reference for this.

And neither does the framework for disability benefits. Eligibility for disability benefits is not dependant on having a certain or prescribed condition or disability. It recognises that no two people with the same disability or condition will be affected in the same way. So no preferential treatment is given to any particular disability. Eligibility is purely on how that disability or condition affects your daily life and ability to function. Care to expand ?

Couldn’t have put it better myself. So well said.

So we take it out on the sick and disabled low hanging fruit instead ?

Didn’t stop Trump.

In fairness, I'd be quite happy to live off benefits as well so I don't blame them. Especially when they are no better off than working in a low paid miserable job.
I was on benefits in the late 80s. It was brilliant, I used to go out clubbing every night and sleep all day. Ahh, happy days

What other suggestion do you have?

There are so many people on here saying how it is so nasty what the government are doing, without having any suggestions about how we can stop bleeding money and get some many to improve life here.

People claiming UC and going on holidays paid for my relatives aren't doing anything illegal either. Neither are people claiming PIP/DLA. Yet people on here are wanking themselves senseless over the idea this might be stopped.

Ok, so I accept some people are probably claiming fraudulently/over exaggerating their conditions. But I'd rather see a few people claiming something they aren't entitled too, than even more people losing what they are.

OP, you don't know what you're talking about.
In all fairness, 15 years ago or so it used to be easier to claim benefits and not work, but the rules have vastly tightened.
I, of all people have been through the system and it is gruelling and unfair.
I have a neurological disability as well as mental health issues and I know you say you are not referring to that, but it is hard proving that.
Even with an NHS headed medical evidence letter, my local jobcentre were having none of it.
Job centre advisors vary of course, but it isn't as simple as getting a dump load of money in your bank account, they can be vile and dismissive.
With job seeker's allowance, the amount is woefully tiny and, as someone else has said, you can be sanctioned easily.

Where do you live?! It sounds very much like where I live (an odd part of the south coast).

Care work requires a specific sort of person with the right aptitude. It should never be seen as job anyone should be have to do. That is not fair on the people that need care.

Its sort of a basic fucking tenet of humanity that we have evolved to care for our own species. Its the bedrock of human society that we care for the vulnerable. Only a tiny minority of people should be genuinely not able to provide basic level care, if paid to do so.

That’s the ‘what’ but doesn’t include the ‘how’.

Until somebody here can come up with a realistic and specific idea as to how we raise an extra £5 billion a year, every year, with a dwindling workforce and stagnant growth, this entire conversation is moot.

Stop rich corporations leeching off the tax payer via UC. Same with landlords who routinely raise their rents every time UC rates are raised. Look at child benefit (runs for cover as this is MN) and the thresholds for claiming it. Look at the frankly ridiculous claims for child care costs connected to UC. When I was a benefit adviser many claimants were entitled to up to £1700 per month - that’s more than twice the maximum disability benefits.

We could also look at the system for claiming disability benefits - as Labour promised to do before abandoning that in favour of straightforward money saving cuts. At the moment claimants are at the mercy of assessors recruited from NHS - not doctors, but nurses, physios and paramedics. They have a few weeks training online as ‘disability analysts’ and are then unleashed on sick and disabled people and expected to assess disability which in many cases is well outside their remit and experience, and in a lot of cases in contradiction of the claimants’ own specialist reports.

A DWP case manager with no medical experience then makes the decision about the benefit award, based on the assessors’ report.

As an outreach worker I had access to many of these reports and the standards were appalling in many cases - with no appreciation or understanding of the effects of the actual disability. So in these situations the claimant is forced to go to appeal, which is very expensive for the tax payer. Appeal tribunals are made up of professionals who understand and have actual experience of disability, and the majority of DWP decisions are overturned - tribunal judges have been severely critical of not only DWP decisions themselves, but the decision to allow the tribunal expense in the first place where it’s fairly clear that the evidence is in favour of the claimant.

So. If the root and branch reform of the assessment process promised by Labour actually took place, the majority of this significant extra expense would be wiped out because the decision would be right first time and there would be no need for expensive appeal.

I’m very sceptical of the authenticity of self reported conditions. I’ll leave it there.