To think too many people are happy to live off benefits forever?

[BritishQueue]

Okay, I know this is a touchy subject here on MN, but I need to ask, AIBU to think that too many people are just choosing to stay on universal credit rather than work?

Obviously, I’m not talking about people who genuinely can’t work - disabilities, carers, etc (even though a lot of those who claim to be unfit for work are perfectly capable, and I’ve seen “carers” for people who don’t actually need any care…). But I know multiple people who are completely able-bodied and yet have no intention of ever getting a job. They say things like “it’s not worth it” or “I’d be worse off working,” and honestly, I don’t get it. I work full-time, pay tax, and yet I see people getting rent paid, extra handouts, and still managing holidays and luxuries I can’t afford. Not to mention that a lot of women think the government should subsidise their SAHM lifestyle.

I just don’t understand how it’s fair? Surely benefits should be a safety net, not a lifestyle choice? AIBU?

Their outcomes were better when not diagnosed? How so? Please tell me you're joking!

You can think what you like. You can be as pious, sanctimonious and judgemental as you like. And narrow minded.

It still doesn't make you right.

You overlook the fact that one section of society is being encouraged to look with suspicion at another section and judge their worth from the perspective of monetary value alone. You ignore how we got to this point, and claim people are entitled. Billionaires feel entitled to their wealth, regardless of source, which is often from bloated state funded contracts, unearned inheritance, slavery and the profits of war. Why shouldn't we ape our alleged betters in that regard?

Jesus Christ listen to yourself. There are people born without a limb and people who lose a limb later in life. If the provision of an artificial limb substitutes the functional ability of that person then there is no disability - as in, for example, people who have lost a leg below knee may not qualify for the mobility component or any other of PIP because the artificial limb allows them to function as they did before the loss of that limb.

Then there are people who have a congenital disability which includes the slow deterioration of limb function and for whom the simple replacement of that limb with an artificial one doesn’t restore the full function - there is still residual disability. You’re oversimplifying.

Costa
Starbucks
JD Sports
Many more. Educate yourself. They don’t’ pay any more tax than they have to. Surely you can’t be this naive ?

Billionaires earn their money, pay tax, employ people, provide a service.

Could they be taxed more? Probably, but we already have such a high tax burden that it’s too difficult to implement further taxes without suppressing desperately needed growth. The top 1% of earners pay 30% of all income tax.

We cannot simply be a nation of unemployed benefit claimants propped up by a small handful of highly taxed billionaires. Literally no country can exist like this. All this ‘they just want us to pick on each other..’ is a nonsense - there are issues at both ends of the spectrum that need addressing.

We have far too many people out of work and claiming benefits for SEMH reasons. Thankfully 1 million of them will no longer be propped up via PIP come November. It’ll be brutal but it has to be done.

Why don’t you educate yourself?

Our growth is minimal, our economy is stagnant. Placing punitive tax measures on businesses would be a spectacular own goal. Even Labour know this. You can’t just keep putting taxes up as the workforce dwindles and dependents eclipse everything.

Billionaires pay tax?

You seriously have no clue, do you?

You're either very young, very uneducated, or ND yourself and unable to see all the shades of grey.

Billionaires use tax avoidance schemes, including but not limited to parking their money in tax havens. They also pay themselves a small wage, and obtain the rest in tax-free dividends.

The only people paying tax are the PAYE earners.

Costa, JD Sports, Starbucks, Amazon, Tesco, Walmart, to name but a few, are hardly likely to pull out of the UK market if they have to start paying their fair share.

Maybe you should ask yourself what level of disability is worth the benefit it attracts. You seem to be focused on the benefit and not the disability that qualifies people for it. For over twenty years I’ve dealt with people so disabled it would make most here want to lie down and die. As a tax payer I for one would never begrudge these people a quality of life where they could access everything they need to make life easier in whatever way possible. The fact that you’ve expressed that you don’t want this says everything we need to know.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqlvggr9qz5o.amp

"Thankfully". Fucking hell, how can you be so cold?

This will lead to suicides. I have seen people talk about it. They will be left destitute and also forced to find work. They will still be disabled and have all of that to contend with too.

This could be you one day.

Bonkers bear baiting post OP.

There are many more companies than I’ve named here. None of them are likely to exit the UK market if forced to pay their share. I agree that growth is minimal at the moment. I attribute a lot of this to the fact that we have a chancellor who isn’t fit for office and a government that doesn’t seem to recognise the difference between opposition and being in government.

Do you know the history of disability ? Do you know that up to sixty years ago most disabled people were either long term hospitalised or institutionalised. Do you know how that cost would translate today ? A lot more than disability and carers benefits put together. I suggest that you’re the one who needs to educate yourself and maybe have a long hard look at your ableist attitude.

Jeez you are missing so much education.

1 million people with less money to spend will shrink the economy, not grow it. 1 million people getting further into debt, some possibly being evicted, their employment disrupted - because PIP is an in work benefit as well - their children's education being disrupted if they have to re-locate. 1 million people chasing 800,000 alleged jobs which will include zero hours, part-time and insecure contracts. 1 million people that won't be able to access support. 1 million people that employers are not obliged to employ, unless the government steps in.

1 million people vulnerable to exploitation by potentially unscrupulous employers.

1 million people who will possibly be unable to cover basic living costs.

The fallout from this is likely to cost more than it saves.

We can only hope. Because it’s only through lived experience of disability and caring that people can truly appreciate what’s involved.

ND myself 😂😂

Billionaires are different from ‘high earners’, they use complex strategies to pay minimum tax. I understand this. They’re not the same as somebody earning a few million a year at the top rate of income tax.

But no country has really succeeded in remedying this, because policies needed for growth sadly enable this kind of financial freedom and it’s hard to disentangle the two, if not impossible.

I don’t think Labour are greedy and corrupted, I think if there was low hanging fruit to suddenly raise billions through an easy and harmless tax policy for billionaires they would do it. So, why don’t they?

🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Well nobody gives two shits about workers on the edge do they, as long as they keep showing up for their NMW jobs and shoving their kids in childcare so everyone else can get the benefits they so deserve?

Compassion is a 2 way street.

Can’t you just answer?

Why haven’t they done it? Are Labour greedy and unprincipled?

Yes.

Sorry but as a chartered tax advisor I can tell you that it’s the wealthy who pay so much tax it’s untrue. 13,000 millionaires have left the uk since Labour came to power. Their tax bills would be far far lower overseas. You are a total idiot if you can’t see that. They’re are no magic money trees. The ordinary people of the uk have to pay European levels of tax if we want to get European levels of public service, but we don’t. No where near. We have a whacking great nil rate band and then a basic rate of only 20%. Income tax paid by the low waged I’d far, far higher in other countries.

Options are to raise basic rate of tax, raise VAT or cut welfare.

Why? What should they be implementing, and why in your view aren’t they?

As the most qualified person here can I ask your view on a potential wealth tax, or a restructuring of the tax system so billionaires are forced to pay much higher taxes?

Billionaires gave us the device we are typing this on

They aren’t doing anything illegal though. They are using the same transfer pricing rules used the world over. The OECD are brining in minimum tax rates of 15% corporation tax but thats not going to solve the UK’s problems as corporation tax is but a small slice of the tax take pie. I believe the welfare bill is due to go up by £30bn a year this decade. That rise in disability payments itself is more than the entire corporation tax take.