To wonder if Labour really understand the implications of their attack on private schools?

[Bumpitybumper]

I've just found out a private school near me is almost certainly closing. I honestly think this is a disaster for everyone involved. Obviously the direct employees (teachers, caretakers, caterers and cleaners etc) and the suppliers will suffer. The children will now need to find a new school either in the state or private sector. Easier said than done considering many of the good local schools are full so there it isn't like they are applying for a state schools with a full range of options that everyone else has. Most importantly though, I wonder if the government has quite anticipated the type of children that they are disrupting and harming here.

I withdrew my child from this private school because the school was basically acting as a bit of a school that unofficially specialised in SEN and my child doesn't have a SEN so it was a poor fit. Many of the children struggled with behaviour, socialising and needed adaptions to the school day to keep them on an even keel. The school managed this fine as it was small enough to adapt and create an environment that wasn't too stressful for the children. I am seriously worried about what will happen to these kids now. I don't think many of them could cope in a state setting, especially one that is struggling already to deliver a good level of education to the children there. I honestly think these children will either have their own education decimated or they will incredibly disruptive and resource hungry which will impact other kids. I feel really angry on these poor children's behalf. The parents that I know that sent their kids there were doing so as a last resort because they had been failed by the state sector.

AIBU to think that Labour really hasn't thought through who they are impacting with their anti private school policies? They are nowhere near nuanced enough to target the privileged only and inevitably many struggling and SEN kids are going to be hugely detrimented by this.

So you are saying it was closing because of VAT, yet at the same time, it wasn't actually because of VAT.

The fact that it has failed says the business model didn't work in at least this one case. Their margin was too tight.

I think you are assuming I am someone who is ideologically opposed to private schools. Far from it. I am currently spending over £40k a year for one child to attend a private school. The addition of VAT has cost me about £9k per year.

State schools are closing too.

Despite the apparent massive influx (not) from private.

The birth rate is falling.

Only some parents are withdrawing due to VAT.

Plenty are wealthy enough to shrug it off.

Plenty might be reconsidering due to General COL.

YABU and ridiculous.

I am suggesting it is closing because the combination of VAT/NI/Business Rates makes the long term future of the school unviable. The closure is absolutely rooted in government policy.

Many businesses wouldn't survive such an onslaught. It doesn't mean the business is fundamentally flawed as this would imply it would shut if Labour had implemented different policies. I don't think it would have. It has survived this long and had stable pupil numbers.

You’re right, the COL is having an impact too which is why it was bloody stupid of the Government to introduce this policy at a time when families are already under huge amounts of financial pressure. The country (and the World) has changed massively since the Labour Party proposed the VAT policy at the 2019 election. But they gave no thought to this (or they did and just didn’t give a shit).

The birth rate is falling so much in my area that a new state primary has just opened.

The Times reported last week that state sixth form applications from private school pupils have massively increased this year.

Even if I took all of your points as fact (which I don't) your post still makes no sense as ultimately the private school closing means more, potentially expensive kids with SEN will be entering the state sector. It's the double whammy of losing out on the VAT they could have paid and then also having up fund their school place. Lots of people made unemployed and potentially relying on state benefits for a period of time. Our economy contracts just a little bit more. Children suffering a disrupted education. And for what? What is the actual point of all of this?

Me three! It took 3 years for a diagnosis for my child but that was because he was in Yr 1 when Covid hit and thus delayed. He was diagnosed and had an EHCP by Yr 4. No cost to me. Have our annual reviews too.

Interesting as numbers are falling everywhere(state and private), but only in this school have they remained steady and apparently parents having to pay £3k extra a year has caused it to close. Nothing else. Ok

Why wouldn’t a 20% tax damage a sector?

Would your sector be immune to job losses and damage if they had 20% tax hit?

They have thought this through.

They want to get rid of private schools for ideological reasons.

Any money made from VAT is just a bonus.

Birth rates are falling so there is less demand for school places - absorbing children moving out of the private sector will have minimal impact and may even help to keep some state schools financially viable.

I think thier stance is ideological. They don't believe in private education and when it comes to state education, they are ideologically focused on inclusion but not on funding it.

Well it wasn’t means tested as such , just a cut off point introduced. I think Labour are being surprisingly binary in some of their choices . I genuinely don’t know they are out to get any group of society. But I do think they don’t care about the impacts

There may be no VAT - but there is no school for them to attend either

Except they aren't falling everywhere. Many state schools are still oversubscribed and lots of private schools are maintaining their numbers. If you think this school is the only school that isn't losing pupils then you are wrong.

Also I never said that VAT was the sole reason as this isn't the only policy Labour have implemented. Business Rates and National Insurance have contributed too. I don't know why you think these measures wouldn't have a huge impact? NI increases alone are causing huge issues in other sectors.

The state can’t fund anything properly.

I agree with this, except I think that keeping state schools financially viable isn't really in the government's interests Under subscribed schools are very expensive to keep open per child and artificially filling them with private school pupils only means that the government can't shut the school and make huge savings.

No, clearly RR does not think long term. A huge number of DC with EHCP's have to now go in taxis up to 40 miles each way so about 160 miles a day in taxi fares. This plus cost of place in state school would clearly negate any savings made on their VAT.

Except DC who live in rural areas in the past it was up to their parents to get them there now it's up to the state to get them to a state school or a special school in.many instances.

I used to work in a private school. 40% on the SEND register, but only one EHCP. We had lots of success with school refusers. It definitely catered for a group of children who were not having their needs met in the state sector. A lot of them would have struggled to get an EHCP.

Well - how else were Labour ever going to get into power? They had to have one ‘big’ draw - and that’s tax the perceived rich - because people don’t like that others might have more to spend on things like school. They’ve gone pretty quiet now they’ve got in haven’t they? Have they even said what they’re doing with money?

This. Any child with an Ehcp won't be affected.
Generally the people are affected are those who've paid for private diagnosis of things like dyslexia because private schools will readily sort out extra time in exams, it's an absolute racket that govt are looking into.
If these kids don't qualify for an Ehcp then their needs aren't that great and they will probably just have to manage in state school like everyone else has to.

This won't change. Private school parents will still pay. Those that can't afford to use private schools will use state schools. What has changed is that the number of people each side of that divide. And the vast vast vast majority can't afford it.

@Emanresuunknown
Look at @Neemie post above yours to see that just because a child doesn't apply or even qualify for a ECHP it doesn't mean their needs don't matter. You insisting that they must just 'manage' in a state school pays no regard to the fact that they might not be able to do that. This won't only impact them but potentially the whole class as struggling children can be hugely disruptive. I suppose you don't care though as none of the children who are having their education detrimented qualify for an ECHP and therefore don't matter.

Wrong. It’s only if the ECHP actually names the private school. There are lots of children in private schools that have ECHP’s that don’t name the school or who should be entitled to a ECHP but their parents gave up due to the obstacles put in their way through the process so they opted for private instead as they were desperate to get a suitable school place and keep their children safe. These are often the parents that are on the very edge of affordability and who are most impacted by the VAT on fees.

But we do know, because unless you think the government is going to announce big above-inflation funding boosts for the education budget — pretty damn unlikely given the current state of the economy — then we already know that the amount per pupil is going to be cut! The more private school kids move to the state sector, the more the funding per pupil will be reduced because the education budget has to go round more kids.

Will you still be all for this policy if funding actually goes down to state schools as a result of having to take more ex-private school kids?

Where are you getting those stats from? It's pretty unlikely that a "huge number" of children are travelling 80 miles a day to get to and from school, particularly bearing in mind that statutory guidance says that journey times shouldn't normally be more than 1 hour 15 each way for older children, 45 minutes for younger ones. Some may be, but not a huge number.